Threat to contaminate baby formula with 1080 poison

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206 posts

Master Geek

#1254821 10-Mar-2015 17:57

My understanding was the situation had been leaked, whether this was to the media or a third party I don't know.

Therefore the situation surrounding the hurried press conference etc..

networkn

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#1254848 10-Mar-2015 18:22

freitasm: Jobins asked a question, one that came up when things were blown out of proportion by a sensationalistic move by NZ Police.

Doesn't seem overly sensationalistic to me personally. If they have tried to eliminate the threat and have been unable to, and some stage making the public aware of it seems very reasonable, and the motivations behind a rushed conference have been explained as a possibility too.

Imagine what happens if the problem is leaked to the public before the police mention it, then everyone is on THAT bandwagon too.

He never denied the police should investigate and never said the threat was not a serious one.

The topic of the thread nor any part of his first message show any indication that he DOES think that either.

He is curious about the timing which coincides with the current political events regarding security.

For my money, that is an entirely different discussion than the one I'd expect to find under the topic heading. my 2c worth is that with the line of question he had and the obvious (to me) discussion he wanted to have about it, would have better named "curious timing of 1080 announcement".

I personally was expecting an entirely different discussion. I was expecting one about the consequences if the chemical DOES get mixed with child products and what we as a community could contribute positively to avoiding that outcome.

Instead a bunch of you decide to attack him personally.

If something I said offended him because he felt personally attacked rather than having his ideas challenged with alternative ideas, then I apologise. Having said that, I am pretty careful to not make personal attacks on people and honestly didn't see any comments I made
as personal.

freitasm

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#1254862 10-Mar-2015 18:45

networkn:
freitasm: He never denied the police should investigate and never said the threat was not a serious one.

The topic of the thread nor any part of his first message show any indication that he DOES think that either.

You are confusing absence of evidence with evidence of absence. Just because he didn't clearly spell it out you can't gather evidence he didn't think.

networkn: For my money, that is an entirely different discussion than the one I'd expect to find under the topic heading. my 2c worth is that with the line of question he had and the obvious (to me) discussion he wanted to have about it, would have better named "curious timing of 1080 announcement".

I personally was expecting an entirely different discussion. I was expecting one about the consequences if the chemical DOES get mixed with child products and what we as a community could contribute positively to avoiding that outcome.

Sure, why don't you do this then? Instead of taking the discussion in that direction you and KiwiNZ decided that the best course of action would be some ad hominen attack - calling him a troll no less.

networkn: If something I said offended him because he felt personally attacked rather than having his ideas challenged with alternative ideas, then I apologise. Having said that, I am pretty careful to not make personal attacks on people and honestly didn't see any comments I made
as personal.

I have no idea if he felt personally attacked. He didn't complain to me. What I have an idea of is the words in those last pages and I am appalled that people instead of discussing the topic decide to discuss the contributor.

As I said, pull your heads in folks.

Dingbatt

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#1254870 10-Mar-2015 18:57

This was revealed on the same day as Apple reveal their Apple Watch.
Coincidence, or an attack on the world's most valuable company?

Just trying to bring something 'geeky' to the discussion :-D

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

JimmyH

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#1254876 10-Mar-2015 19:22

I just hope that they catch whoever did this, and reward them with a nice long all-expenses-paid holiday staying at Her Majesty's bed and breakfast (AKA prison).

oxnsox

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#1254880 10-Mar-2015 19:32

My take on this.
- Someone made a threat that had a set date for action (end March)
- Police (and Govt.) assessed the likelyhood of it being real as low, AND they had 4months to investigate/verify.
- There was no immediate need to notify the public
- Publicity about this would only be negative on a wider economic scale (not every country reacts to these things the way NZers do)
- Industry notified, and testing regime put in place
- Plan to notify public, if necessary, prior to threat date (when govt. and industry have credible evidence to support claim is false)
- Someone leaks some detail to media, forcing govt. into a media event
- Now govt. and industry are in the 'damned if you do-damned if they don't' media mixture
- NZ looses.... we just need to see the duration of that and the impact

freitasm

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#1254883 10-Mar-2015 19:37

Supermarkets now moving baby formula out of reach... But what if those people decide to lay a threat on coffee, hot chocolate, sugar? Where will this stop? Will supermarkets move everything? Why not service customers from a window?

You have to ask for infant formula now - Edgeware Super Value. pic.twitter.com/dFx6ZlMA8w

— Donna R (@kebabette) March 10, 2015

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networkn

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#1254902 10-Mar-2015 19:53

freitasm: Supermarkets now moving baby formula out of reach... But what if those people decide to lay a threat on coffee, hot chocolate, sugar? Where will this stop? Will supermarkets move everything? Why not service customers from a window?

You have to ask for infant formula now - Edgeware Super Value. pic.twitter.com/dFx6ZlMA8w

— Donna R (@kebabette) March 10, 2015

Well is there a better way to deal with the threat ? Food isn't threatened very often and usually it comes in spates as people copycat, but formula is considered essential, and even small amounts of toxin affect little people far more than adults, so extra precaution seems reasonable.

The discussion over dinner tonight was around what purpose putting 1080 into baby formula actually has? Babies aren't responsible and are indefensible, whomever is making the threats will have lost their target audience and weakened their message. If the message was "well if 1080 is safe then why can't we put it in food?" this attack hasn't been thought out because the proportional volume of 1080 to go into a can of baby formula to simulate the amount sprayed over the vast areas, would be so small as to actually not have any affect on babies most likely, and if they use more, then they aren't drawing reasonable comparisons.

The whole idea is flawed.

networkn

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#1254903 10-Mar-2015 19:54

oxnsox: My take on this.
- Someone made a threat that had a set date for action (end March)
- Police (and Govt.) assessed the likelyhood of it being real as low, AND they had 4months to investigate/verify.
- There was no immediate need to notify the public
- Publicity about this would only be negative on a wider economic scale (not every country reacts to these things the way NZers do)
- Industry notified, and testing regime put in place
- Plan to notify public, if necessary, prior to threat date (when govt. and industry have credible evidence to support claim is false)
- Someone leaks some detail to media, forcing govt. into a media event
- Now govt. and industry are in the 'damned if you do-damned if they don't' media mixture
- NZ looses.... we just need to see the duration of that and the impact

Perfect summary, well done.

stagnant16

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Master Geek

#1254906 10-Mar-2015 19:56

networkn: The discussion over dinner tonight was around what purpose putting 1080 into baby formula actually has? Babies aren't responsible and are indefensible, whomever is making the threats will have lost their target audience and weakened their message. If the message was "well if 1080 is safe then why can't we put it in food?" this attack hasn't been thought out because the proportional volume of 1080 to go into a can of baby formula to simulate the amount sprayed over the vast areas, would be so small as to actually not have any affect on babies most likely, and if they use more, then they aren't drawing reasonable comparisons.

The whole idea is flawed.

Second agenda in play?

networkn

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#1254911 10-Mar-2015 20:14

stagnant16:
networkn: The discussion over dinner tonight was around what purpose putting 1080 into baby formula actually has? Babies aren't responsible and are indefensible, whomever is making the threats will have lost their target audience and weakened their message. If the message was "well if 1080 is safe then why can't we put it in food?" this attack hasn't been thought out because the proportional volume of 1080 to go into a can of baby formula to simulate the amount sprayed over the vast areas, would be so small as to actually not have any affect on babies most likely, and if they use more, then they aren't drawing reasonable comparisons.

The whole idea is flawed.

Second agenda in play?

Sorry I am not sure what you mean? Could you elaborate?

Lias

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#1254919 10-Mar-2015 20:23

I personally consider the likelihood of it being a fake threat to justify increased mass surveillance and loss of liberty and privacy to be more probable than it being a genuine threat.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

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#1254939 10-Mar-2015 20:56

Lias: I personally consider the likelihood of it being a fake threat to justify increased mass surveillance and loss of liberty and privacy to be more probable than it being a genuine threat.

I'll take the safety of my kids above and beyond your perceived loss of liberty and privacy every day of the week.

freitasm

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#1254945 10-Mar-2015 21:10

networkn:
Lias: I personally consider the likelihood of it being a fake threat to justify increased mass surveillance and loss of liberty and privacy to be more probable than it being a genuine threat.

I'll take the safety of my kids above and beyond your perceived loss of liberty and privacy every day of the week.

If it happens as described and you support it because of the perceived threat to children, then the "conspiracy" would be correct, surely?

In which case your previous posts saying it was a "conspiracy theory" with no real value would be invalidated.

That's just logical.

networkn

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#1254946 10-Mar-2015 21:13

freitasm:
networkn:
Lias: I personally consider the likelihood of it being a fake threat to justify increased mass surveillance and loss of liberty and privacy to be more probable than it being a genuine threat.

I'll take the safety of my kids above and beyond your perceived loss of liberty and privacy every day of the week.

If it happens as described and you support it because of the perceived threat to children, then the "conspiracy" would be correct, surely?

In which case your previous posts saying it was a "conspiracy theory" with no real value would be invalidated.

That's just logical.

Sorry you lost me.

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