TOT being removed in exchange for increased salary. Help.

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671 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1562347 30-May-2016 14:00

BlinkyBill:
Kyanar:
alasta:

Employment law in Australia tends to be more employer friendly in a lot of areas, so Australian owned companies often try to do things in NZ that are outside of what is allowed in this jurisdiction.

You're kiddig right? No, it really isn't more employer friendly. In fact it's far, far less friendly to employers than NZ is. Right wing Aus governments have been trying to pass NZ-style employment law for decades, and it gets defeated by the mega-unions every time.

I work for an Australian company, in NZ. In fact I am the NZ CEO. The stuff they can do in Aussie compared to the stuff we can do here (as employers) is unreal in comparison. NZ is much more employEE-friendly in comparison.

I have a few staff I would like to just fire, but I can't (I have go go through a performance-management charade). In Aussie I could just do it. Flame on.

Interesting. Have you commented on the what does a CEO do thread? http://m.geekzone.co.nz/Forums/48/Topic/196364?pageNo=4

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1562349 30-May-2016 14:02

This sounds very poor, especially as it is an essential tool. Without a car, I presume it is impossible for you to do the work. As you don't have a car, you have either have the cost to buy one. Otherwise you have to lease or get a loan, which over the long term is going to likely work out higher. Then what happens if the company does cut backs. This is very likely with any change of ownership of a company. You would want to make sure you have a contract on place where you are paid a good remuneration package. I think the only option you have to to get a employment lawyer involved, and you should possibly try to get your employer to cover the costs of the professional advice you need, because they are the ones wanting to make the changes. My experience with some Australian owned companies, is that they can be ruthless. It is a different company culture over there.

jmh

458 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1562354 30-May-2016 14:11

Sounds like you've been put in a difficult position. I would be looking for another job right now. I have a lot of clients from companies taken over by the Aussies, flown over the train Australian staff and then sacked. They don't care about your welfare. Move on.

Bung

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#1562358 30-May-2016 14:17

mudguard:
MikeB4:

EG If my wife drives to Napier on business that is about 700km return for which she will be paid around $500, it cost nowhere near that to do the trip.

I drive 40,000k per year(excluding rental cars, which aren't affected). Of that personal is about 100km per week.
The IRD figure is based on not exceeding 5000k pa so beyond that I don't know. I'll hopefully have an appointment this week as I'm not back home for a few weeks.

The reimbursement isn't supposed to be too far out of line with actual costs. The 5000km limit is from the self employed section.

This is from the employee section

"The 5,000 km limit for self-employed people does not apply to employers using the mileage rate to reimburse employees. Although employers may use the mileage rate to reimburse employees that reimbursement must be a reasonable estimate of the costs likely to be incurred by the employee.

The reimbursement is exempt from income tax "to the extent to which it reimburses the employee for expenditure for which the employee would be allowed a deduction if the employment limitation did not exist". Employers who reimburse employees for business travel in excess of 5,000 km will need to consider whether the mileage rate is still a reasonable estimate of the employee's costs."

RUKI

1402 posts

Uber Geek

#1562368 30-May-2016 14:49

My 2 cents: if you end up with having your own car used for work and arrange for insurance - your premium will be higher because you will be using it for work and you have to tell that to insurance company. Among other things they will ask how many Kms you are doing p.a. - your km numbers will increase the premium.

tchart

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#1562375 30-May-2016 14:57

Just an idea but how about hiring a car? Or use that as a basis for your calculations? Or could you ask to expense it?

I'm sure you could hire a car for $100 a day or $500-600 a week. That would add $24K (after tax) to your asking salary (ie 48 weeks X $500).

Reduces the risk for you, no upfront cost to you, no loans/leases, no maintenance worries, no insurance etc.

Probably reflects the true cost of owning a vehicle.

timmmay

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#1562377 30-May-2016 15:06

tchart:

Just an idea but how about hiring a car? Or use that as a basis for your calculations? Or could you ask to expense it?

I'm sure you could hire a car for $100 a day or $500-600 a week. That would add $24K (after tax) to your asking salary (ie 48 weeks X $500).

Reduces the risk for you, no upfront cost to you, no loans/leases, no maintenance worries, no insurance etc.

Probably reflects the true cost of owning a vehicle.

Plus petrol of up to $30K per year, according to my earlier estimate.

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MikeB4

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#1562387 30-May-2016 15:20

timmmay:

tchart:

Just an idea but how about hiring a car? Or use that as a basis for your calculations? Or could you ask to expense it?

I'm sure you could hire a car for $100 a day or $500-600 a week. That would add $24K (after tax) to your asking salary (ie 48 weeks X $500).

Reduces the risk for you, no upfront cost to you, no loans/leases, no maintenance worries, no insurance etc.

Probably reflects the true cost of owning a vehicle.

Plus petrol of up to $30K per year, according to my earlier estimate.

$30,000 per year for fuel is rather high, that is over $560 per week or around 300 litres per week also your insurance figure seems a bit but that would depend on the vehicle concerned

Linuxluver

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#1562390 30-May-2016 15:23

mudguard:

I don't even know where to start with this.

I had a call this week from my boss to tell us that our tools of trade vehicle will be returned 1st of August when the company that purchases us becomes official and that we will be having our salaries adjusted to compensate. She's asked us to work out as best as possible what the minimum that needs to be. What is awkward is that my colleague and I report to Australia and come under their umbrella so what might be ok for our Aussie colleagues might not be great for us.

My job consists of travelling around the country from Auckland, where the upper North Island we drive, everywhere else we fly and pick up a rental car. So I'm away from home 7 weeks out of 8. We average roughly 30-40,000k in our cars, the rest in rentals.

So obviously the car really is a tool, and not just a perk. I've contacted the company we lease the vehicles from to get an idea of what we pay for the lease and servicing. Obviously fuel is a big cost and insurance.

Do I need to speak to an accountant? A few casual inquiries suggest that leasing as individual is not that straightforward, the company we are currently with (I asked if taking over the lease was an option) however they flat out don't do it.

So do I purchase a brand new vehicle, buy an older one, lease?

Help!

When the part of IBM I worked for was sold to AT&T in 1999, I lost my company car and it was replaced with a leased car in my name that I was given a salary rise to cover the cost of the lease and insurance. So I was even, right?

Not quite.

When I returned it to the leasing company they assessed the 'damage' and I got a bill for $1,620 (small dents and paint chips - nothing out of order and I considered it reasonable). I had to pay for that. The lease was in my name. I assume you're also now paying for repairs to your car. Maintenance.

Are they paying you per km? I get $0.74 / km for my time and wear and tear on the vehicle I'm using to for the job. They have to pay for the use they require of your car, right? I often have to drive somewhere on Sunday afternoon to be in place early Monday morning. A few weeks ago it was Kaitaia - 5 hours each way. Without a mileage charge, you're giving away both your car and your time.

Look out for stuff like that. If you're en employee then you can't claim expenses as a contractor would. But if you're a contractor for most or 100% of your time the law says you're an employee anyway (unless you fall under John Key's 'Hollywood' exemption for bad employers who make movies).

Your employer wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't saving them money....and they are transferring the cost and risk to you. If you have no other opportunites I guess you have to suck it up. That's the globalised, atomised world this government wants for everyone.

I never vote for them.

_____________________________________________________________________

I've been on Geekzone over 16 years..... Time flies....

tchart

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#1562415 30-May-2016 16:03

timmmay:

Plus petrol of up to $30K per year, according to my earlier estimate.

Yikes forgot about that.

Yes so now we are looking at $40-50K pa.

As pointed out they are doing this to save money. They know the cost of operating a fleet.

At this point I would be very suspect that they are trying to;

1) "do you over" (less cost to them)

2) Shift the risk of increasing petrol prices to you

3) Attempting to get rid of you now - ie you fold and leave

4) Attempting to get rid of you later - ie make it untenable

If you are expected to drive as part of your job then they should supply the tools of the trade (vehicle, insurance, fuel). I'd be very wary of any organisation that expected you to take on all of the risk for a fixed salary increase.

timmmay

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#1562424 30-May-2016 16:18

$30K wasn't for petrol, it was based on the 72c/km figure including maintenance and such.

MikeB4

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#1562456 30-May-2016 16:28

timmmay:

$30K wasn't for petrol, it was based on the 72c/km figure including maintenance and such.

Apologies, I must have misunderstood your "Plus petrol of up to $30K per year"

mudguard

2119 posts

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#1562473 30-May-2016 17:05

Currently use $7200 worth of petrol per year. No real news other than ToT vehicle is stipulated as NOT being part of the salary package and can be removed do at anytime according to the amendment we received last year.

Of course, to my job, I need a car. So...

The company that is taking us over does not use fleet vehicles anywhere else in the world, they adjust staff salaries. So it's not so much of forcing those affected out of our roles (there are some fairly major things that would happen first before our roles ceased) but more a "this is how we do things".

So I will have to sit and wait to find out what the number is. I have no desire to change jobs, I like it. But obviously if the increase doesn't cover the cost of the vehicle I will have to consider my options.

SepticSceptic

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#1562790 31-May-2016 09:22

mudguard:

Currently use $7200 worth of petrol per year. No real news other than ToT vehicle is stipulated as NOT being part of the salary package and can be removed do at anytime according to the amendment we received last year.

Of course, to my job, I need a car. So...

The company that is taking us over does not use fleet vehicles anywhere else in the world, they adjust staff salaries. So it's not so much of forcing those affected out of our roles (there are some fairly major things that would happen first before our roles ceased) but more a "this is how we do things".

So I will have to sit and wait to find out what the number is. I have no desire to change jobs, I like it. But obviously if the increase doesn't cover the cost of the vehicle I will have to consider my options.

Did you sign the amendment ?

trig42

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#1562852 31-May-2016 10:27

I wouldn't have thought it would be an increase to your 'Salary' as such, more an allowance.

My previous job I had to supply my own vehicle, and the company supplied Petrol. I got a $10,000 per annum Vehicle allowance, and a company BP Fuel Card.

The Allowance was tax free (I didn't pay PAYE on it), and it appeared as a separate item on my payslip (even though it all went into my account as one 'Pay'.

Australian owned company, NZ Subsidiary.

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