Is it legal for parking wardens to mark car tyres with chalk?

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#1582242 28-Jun-2016 18:49

I got to my car once and they had coloured in the entire wall on both curb side tyres, Only reason i can think is maybe they thought i kept driving off/rubbing odd the small marks

frednz

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#1582272 28-Jun-2016 19:28

Athlonite:

Countdown has a parking warden ????? if you're shopping in the supermarket itself you are legally allowed to park there for as long as it takes even if it means all day.... But if you park in their "private customer car park" and then beggar off somewhere else then they're quite within their rights to have your car towed as you are not a current customer doing your shopping inside the store

At several Countdown stores in our district, they have just one customer car park each and they all have a time limit specified.

All the people today who were actually doing their shopping at this Countdown supermarket had parked their cars in one of these 90-minute maximum car parks.

All of these of cars had their tyres chalked by a parking warden. Fair enough I suppose, Countdown don't want customers parking there all day which is no different to several other supermarkets.

Fred

frednz

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#1582285 28-Jun-2016 19:39

wellygary:

frednz: I think the point is whether or not someone is interfering with your car without your permission. For example if a bunch of kids sit on the bonnet and roof of your car and put jammy fingerprints all over it, they may not damage your car but they cause a clean up nuisance which must be against some law or other?
Fred

The problem with that is "interfering with a motor vehicle" is not a solitary offence, it can only be enacted in cases where "conversion" or a motor vehicle is attempted, ( and it must be dishonest interfering to boot)

So someone sitting on a car with no intent to take it is not interfering with a motor vehicle under the Crimes act- If they damage it that is another matter... but "interfering" is not what most people would assume...

Crimes act 1961

226 Conversion of vehicle or other conveyance

(1) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who, dishonestly and without claim of right, but not so as to be guilty of theft, takes or uses for his or her own purposes or another person’s purposes—

(a) any vehicle, ship, or aircraft; or (b) any part of any vehicle, ship, or aircraft; or (c) any horse.

(2) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who attempts to commit the offence in subsection (1) or who, dishonestly and without claim of right, interferes with, or gets into or upon, any vehicle, ship, or aircraft.

Thanks for that, I'm glad this section also refers to "any horse" as I wondered whether Countdown might chalk-mark my tethered horse while I was inside doing my grocery shopping!

I'm really pleased to learn that I can sit on other people's cars without fear of retribution because there often aren't enough seats available at many seaside resorts for example! But what say a car owner told me never to sit on his car again. I'm sure he / she then might have some legal rights to stop me doing this if I persisted with doing this in the future?

Fred

frednz

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#1582293 28-Jun-2016 19:48

JonnyCam:

Doesn't interfering involve some type of intent (such as trying door handles to gain access to unlocked cars)

Even if the law is not clear, you would still need some police willing to enforce on that, which I think is unlikely. The chalk disappears after 1 or 2 tyre rotations anyway.

To the OP: How can the tyre black stay on the tread for more than a 10 second journey? (unless as stated above, they apply to the sidewall, which defeats the purpose of chalking, which is to ensure you move out a park when you are supposed to)

It's more the principle of the matter that is at issue here, should anyone have the right to put marks on cars they don't own, whether or not these marks are relatively easy to remove? What say someone writes advertising messages on my windscreen that can be rubbed off with a damp cloth, is this also OK?

Fred

Rickles

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#1582308 28-Jun-2016 20:00

Some time ago the AA put out a blurb on such parking matters, and essentially said it was all in the various Local Body Bylaws.

For example, this is what the Porirua Council have on their web site -

You should not remove Parking Officer chalk marks from your vehicle tyres. This will not help you avoid parking enforcement action. Nor will moving your vehicle from space to space in a time restricted car park in an attempt circumvent the parking restrictions. Your vehicle must be removed completely from the car park by the due time.

Note the words "should not", and their requirement for a vehicle to be removed from an entire car park, not just change spaces!

Rickles

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#1582312 28-Jun-2016 20:06

PS This from the AA website -

I was seen rubbing a chalk mark off my tire by a Wellington parking warden.
He informed me that it was illegal for me to do so and I could be fined $150.
Is this true?

No, its not illegal to rub the chalk marks off, there is no such offence and it was mischievous of the warden to suggest so. If you're told that again, note the parking warden's ID and complain to the Wellington City Council. For what its worth, the AA thinks its odd that councils are still relying on 19th century technology to monitor compliance with parking time restrictions - there are far better ways to do that, such as time-stamped digitial photos.

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frednz

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#1582328 28-Jun-2016 20:19

Rickles:

PS This from the AA website -

I was seen rubbing a chalk mark off my tire by a Wellington parking warden.
He informed me that it was illegal for me to do so and I could be fined $150.
Is this true?

No, its not illegal to rub the chalk marks off, there is no such offence and it was mischievous of the warden to suggest so. If you're told that again, note the parking warden's ID and complain to the Wellington City Council. For what its worth, the AA thinks its odd that councils are still relying on 19th century technology to monitor compliance with parking time restrictions - there are far better ways to do that, such as time-stamped digitial photos.

Thanks Rickles, very helpful, I'm pleased that I can rub a chalk mark off a tyre without fear of retribution as chalk marks really annoy me!

I agree that time-stamped digital photos would be a better way of dealing with this situation. However, EXIF digital camera data is not always reliable evidence in Court because it can easily be manipulated as discussed here:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3229130

One poster said this:

"Date and time are routinely altered. There are many programs available specifically for altering the EXIF date and time, because people set their cameras wrong or forget to change the time after a DST change or travel to a different time zone and want to fix the files."

Fred

ajobbins

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#1582397 29-Jun-2016 01:16

What is the point of countdown chalking your tyres anyway? Their carpark is free, so they can't ping overstayers for liquidated damages and they can't fine you.

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#1582404 29-Jun-2016 06:49

ajobbins: What is the point of countdown chalking your tyres anyway? Their carpark is free, so they can't ping overstayers for liquidated damages and they can't fine you.

They tow your cars away

MikeAqua

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#1582429 29-Jun-2016 08:42

They haven't clicked to that idea in nelson yet. It's just a single white line.

Mind you, I'm rather insensitive to different shades of white so maybe one warden is using pencarrow and the other quarter spanish white.

JonnyCam:
That's why they use different colour chalk and symbols when chalking and write in their chalk / log books what they were using for that day (for court evidence)

Mike

raytaylor

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#1582437 29-Jun-2016 09:14

richms:

Things under the wipers really annoy me. Especially when you dont notice because its passanger side and you are already in the car. I usually just hit the wiper switch so they fall off onto the ground in that case.

I had a michael hill jeweller flyer left on my windscreen in hastings city one day. It rained and the flyer stuck to the windscreen. When i returned to my car, i went to pull it off and some of it stuck to the windscreen.

A quick wipe wouldnt remove it so I had the local branch get my car professionally cleaned.

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#1582578 29-Jun-2016 12:28

mattwnz:

There is quite a difference to any reasonable person judging the difference.

Depends on your definition of "reasonable person".

dickytim

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#1583085 30-Jun-2016 07:19

frednz:

wellygary:

frednz: I think the point is whether or not someone is interfering with your car without your permission. For example if a bunch of kids sit on the bonnet and roof of your car and put jammy fingerprints all over it, they may not damage your car but they cause a clean up nuisance which must be against some law or other?
Fred

The problem with that is "interfering with a motor vehicle" is not a solitary offence, it can only be enacted in cases where "conversion" or a motor vehicle is attempted, ( and it must be dishonest interfering to boot)

So someone sitting on a car with no intent to take it is not interfering with a motor vehicle under the Crimes act- If they damage it that is another matter... but "interfering" is not what most people would assume...

Crimes act 1961

226 Conversion of vehicle or other conveyance

(1) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who, dishonestly and without claim of right, but not so as to be guilty of theft, takes or uses for his or her own purposes or another person’s purposes—

(a) any vehicle, ship, or aircraft; or (b) any part of any vehicle, ship, or aircraft; or (c) any horse.

(2) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who attempts to commit the offence in subsection (1) or who, dishonestly and without claim of right, interferes with, or gets into or upon, any vehicle, ship, or aircraft.

Thanks for that, I'm glad this section also refers to "any horse" as I wondered whether Countdown might chalk-mark my tethered horse while I was inside doing my grocery shopping!

I'm really pleased to learn that I can sit on other people's cars without fear of retribution because there often aren't enough seats available at many seaside resorts for example! But what say a car owner told me never to sit on his car again. I'm sure he / she then might have some legal rights to stop me doing this if I persisted with doing this in the future?

Fred

I think with a horse you could argue that chalking could damage the horse as being approached like that by a strange person can stress the animal.

Sitting on someones car is actually very likely to cause damage where as marking tyres with chalk will likely not cause damage.

stevenz

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#1584489 2-Jul-2016 09:00

How do these new parking sensors work? If I put a light under the car that emits a suitable light so the sensor "sees" daylight, will it trick it into thinking there's no car there? I can't imagine it'd be that simple.

@KnightNZ

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#1584529 2-Jul-2016 11:11

Picked one model of sensor at random and it was IR and magnetic field detection. Maybe you could park a straddle carrier and still appear vacant.

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