Greens' Proposed restrictions in Kiwi Saver?

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Hmm, what to write...
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#1614437 19-Aug-2016 16:05

Lias:

There needs to be a law against political correctness.

My Kiwisaver provider could be run by North Korea or ISIL for all I care as long as it returns a decent profit.

Id be happy with funds in pretty much any arms company (mmmm profit). I don't care who they are selling arms to as long as they do it legally.

My "Line in the sand" (this term originally meant the exact opposite of how we use it now) is simple...if it's legal then its fine.

Matthew

mdooher

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#1614441 19-Aug-2016 16:10

MikeAqua:

But then it's small a step to ban other investments someone thinks are unethical - petroleum, mining, diary fishing, what ever the green don't like. Or they extend the policy from default providers to all providers and funds. Ethical is subjective term and vulnerable to political manipulation

It's a potential slippery slope, the initiative is purely politically motivated and therefore I oppose it at the first stage.

Yep, and you will find "Unethical" will soon be replaced by "inappropriate"... and who decides what that is? Facebook?, The Greens?, owners of organic farms looking for investment?

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#1614448 19-Aug-2016 16:21

mdooher:

Id be happy with funds in pretty much any arms company (mmmm profit). I don't care who they are selling arms to as long as they do it legally.

My "Line in the sand" (this term originally meant the exact opposite of how we use it now) is simple...if it's legal then its fine.

Pretty sure knowingly investing in cluster bombs is illegal in NZ. I figure some kiwisaver providers got lazy in checking and now they know they should change.

However this has now got me to review my kiwisaver provider and returns as I haven't done that in the last 5 years...

mdooher

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#1614452 19-Aug-2016 16:33

KrazyKid:

mdooher:

Id be happy with funds in pretty much any arms company (mmmm profit). I don't care who they are selling arms to as long as they do it legally.

My "Line in the sand" (this term originally meant the exact opposite of how we use it now) is simple...if it's legal then its fine.

Pretty sure knowingly investing in cluster bombs is illegal in NZ. I figure some kiwisaver providers got lazy in checking and now they know they should change.

However this has now got me to review my kiwisaver provider and returns as I haven't done that in the last 5 years...

I see the Government signed a treaty that says they won't allow their use, transfer etc. But where in New Zealand law does it say I can't invest in them?

Matthew

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#1614457 19-Aug-2016 16:42

MikeAqua:

frankv:

wellygary:

Now given Kiwisaver has $33 billion in it, that means less than 0.3% of your Kiwisaver fund in invested in these companies...

So it's not going to make a huge difference to Kiwisaver or the investors if those investments are shifted to somewhere ethical.

As a one off no. But then it's small a step to ban other investments someone thinks are unethical - petroleum, mining, diary fishing, what ever the green don't like. Or they extend the policy from default providers to all providers and funds. Ethical is subjective term and vulnerable to political manipulation

It's a potential slippery slope, the initiative is purely politically motivated and therefore I oppose it at the first stage.

But, the idea is aligned with Government policy.

The Government has punitive taxes on tobacco and plans to increase them.

So, it would seem counterproductive to support tobacco companies in Kiwisaver.

You could make that as a purely pragmatic argument.

Of course the whole thing is a grey area and the political biases and ideologies emerge pretty quickly.

I tend to regard political ideologies the same as religion.

KrazyKid

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#1614494 19-Aug-2016 17:12

mdooher:

I see the Government signed a treaty that says they won't allow their use, transfer etc. But where in New Zealand law does it say I can't invest in them?

Cluster Munitions act 2009. Part 2 Subpart 1 10.2

Punishable by up to 7 years imprisonment and/or upto $500K fine if knowingly investing funds in cluster munitions

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#1614535 19-Aug-2016 17:49

MikeAqua:

How do people feel about the Green's (endrosed by Labour) proposal for government to control to some extent what Kiwisaver funds can invest in?

KS is private funds. Everything I have read says politicians should be kept as far away from retirement savings as possible. It just somehow seems inappropriate to me for govt to be meddling in private investments. I also don't think KS should be a political football. Investors need stability.

Coincidentally I have been thinking lately that I should increase my retirement savings. I've maxed out on the particular advantages of KS (employer contribution and tax credit). For additional investment it's a choice between more KS or investment in a non KS fund.

If it was only the Greens, I wouldn't be concerned but with labour's backing political meddling is a tangible possibility and that may push me away from more investment in KS.

Cluster bombs are generally regarded as illegal weapons. New Zealand is a state party to the international convention banning pretty much anything to do with them. Cluster bombs are illegal weapons under NZ law.

I have no issues with banning investment in companies that make illegal products.

I'd be surprised if anyone did have an issue with this.

It would be like arguing in favour of investment by pension funds in a company that makes methamphetamine....because they were operating in some lawless hell hole where it was OK.

You just don't like the Greens, Mike. Looks like they were right yet again. How annoying. :-)

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#1614540 19-Aug-2016 18:05

Geektastic:

Lias:

There needs to be a law against political correctness.

My Kiwisaver provider could be run by North Korea or ISIL for all I care as long as it returns a decent profit.

+1

A question for both of you. Are you happy to invest in a cluster bomb manufacturer as long as it returns a decent profit?

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#1614629 19-Aug-2016 20:04

dafman:

Geektastic:

Lias:

There needs to be a law against political correctness.

My Kiwisaver provider could be run by North Korea or ISIL for all I care as long as it returns a decent profit.

+1

A question for both of you. Are you happy to invest in a cluster bomb manufacturer as long as it returns a decent profit?

I am going to say yes based on their previous statements. some people are not nice people.

All comments are my own opinion, and not that of my employer unless explicitly stated.

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#1614648 19-Aug-2016 21:09

The is a huge difference in what is legal and what is moral. I wonder many of these funds invest in fast food companies or soft drink companies as potentially obesity kills more people than many things.

Lias

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#1614674 19-Aug-2016 22:22

dafman:

Geektastic:

Lias:

There needs to be a law against political correctness.

My Kiwisaver provider could be run by North Korea or ISIL for all I care as long as it returns a decent profit.

+1

A question for both of you. Are you happy to invest in a cluster bomb manufacturer as long as it returns a decent profit?

Can't speak for geektastic, but I'm fairly okay with it.

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#1614681 19-Aug-2016 23:01

Lias:

dafman:

Geektastic:

Lias:

There needs to be a law against political correctness.

My Kiwisaver provider could be run by North Korea or ISIL for all I care as long as it returns a decent profit.

+1

A question for both of you. Are you happy to invest in a cluster bomb manufacturer as long as it returns a decent profit?

Can't speak for geektastic, but I'm fairly okay with it.

Too bad if it was your own kids blown to pieces eh?

That's okay huh - can probably buy replacements using the profit?

itxtme

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#1614726 20-Aug-2016 09:12

I'm just going to put this here

mdooher

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#1614727 20-Aug-2016 09:20

Why does that picture remind me of "Wag the Dog"?

Matthew

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#1614728 20-Aug-2016 09:22

Lias:

dafman:

Geektastic:

Lias:

There needs to be a law against political correctness.

My Kiwisaver provider could be run by North Korea or ISIL for all I care as long as it returns a decent profit.

+1

A question for both of you. Are you happy to invest in a cluster bomb manufacturer as long as it returns a decent profit?

Can't speak for geektastic, but I'm fairly okay with it.

really?

are saying this to get a rise from someone? because i really hope that's not the case...

its illegal - many would argue unethical and despicable....but you are ok with it? :/

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