Consumer Guarantees Act: Right of replacement

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#1715443 4-Feb-2017 16:54

dejadeadnz:
Rikkitic:

That isn't the point Timmmay was making. If you could ever learn to resist the compulsion to grind everyone's face in the sand, you would probably become one of Geekzone's most valuable members.

You do actually realise that I wasn't replying to Timmay? In any event, I have zero desire to conform to the likes of your and a few others' one-directional notion of posting propriety nor to what you consider to be valuable. It's apparently perfectly fine for people to post one-lined replies that are blatantly wrong but it's perfectly okay for people to get upset when someone points out the obvious truth that it's rather improper to assert that the OP is wrong/being unreasonable when they don't even make the effort to be correct and that such replies are indicative of the general anti-consumer sentiment that is often quite apparent on geek/IT forums for anyone who bothers to take notice.

You are doing it again.

That you have corrected laypeople is great. That's what forums can do. But you still stand on your pedestal acting as if we here mislead people. No one misleads with intent . All you had to say was we are wrong, here is why. And fore go the put downs..

And any CGA threads here are always about the retailer or manufacturer not the consumer.

Personally I appreciate your post on this thread, it has enlightened us, so cheers for that.

Query
Substantial . That seems the issue here. To most, substantial means a large failure . But what I gather from here is the OPs TV could have a very small fault but it's not about the faults magnitude it's about the performance of the product ? Which seems to make most claims to be if a substantial issue as either it won't turn on or the product won't work properly? And why is a test if the consumer would not have bought it in that condition? Obviously no consumer will buy a product, be told oh it doesn't turn on and buy anyway. Seems ridiculous for a laymens perspective.

aiyaznz

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#1715444 4-Feb-2017 16:56

dejadeadnz:

One thing I'll add is that my analysis so far has only focused on whether I think the TV has suffered a failure of a substantial character and to correct the usual misinformation about the CGA. You should certainly clearly indicate to the retailer that you intend to exercise your right to reject the goods. If they suggested that they need to have time to assess the TV, it could be exactly as what I and others have indicated, that they just want to make sure you haven't damaged the TV/that you have a valid CGA claim. I would however absolutely stand your ground if they insist that you must accept a repair, if this is not what you are minded to accept.

I dont intend to accept repair and I wanted a replacement, though since this is not an option, I will ask for a full refund. I will make sure I emphasise to them that I intend to reject their offer of repair. Sony is sending people to collect the TV next Tuesday and assess, repair at local service centre.

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#1715445 4-Feb-2017 16:59

aiyaznz:

dejadeadnz:

One thing I'll add is that my analysis so far has only focused on whether I think the TV has suffered a failure of a substantial character and to correct the usual misinformation about the CGA. You should certainly clearly indicate to the retailer that you intend to exercise your right to reject the goods. If they suggested that they need to have time to assess the TV, it could be exactly as what I and others have indicated, that they just want to make sure you haven't damaged the TV/that you have a valid CGA claim. I would however absolutely stand your ground if they insist that you must accept a repair, if this is not what you are minded to accept.

I dont intend to accept repair and I wanted a replacement, though since this is not an option, I will ask for a full refund. I will make sure I emphasise to them that I intend to reject their offer of repair. Sony is sending people to collect the TV next Tuesday and assess, repair at local service centre.

Good luck with that, If it was me I would reject the repair.

Reminds me of a similar experience at few years back I had with an appliance retailer (can recall the exact one so won't name them in case I'm wrong)

Had a breville coffee machine burst a hose internally, water everywhere, unit was only a couple of months old, took it in, asked staff to confirm what breville's warranty was, less than 6 months old it's a replacement, over that it's a fix, but they wanted to assess it first, fair enough. anyway a couple of weeks later I get a call "Your coffee machine is repaired", I head down to the store and polity decline to accecpt the goods, asked them to look up the warranty conditions and point out it's only 2 months old, Sales droid started to complain that they had spent the money on the local service agent fixing it so I have to accecpt it. I walked out of the store and a strongly worded email to the store manager, and a CC copy to Breville and the head office pointing out what the warranty says and that additional water damage may show up further down the track, and that I asked them to confirm the warranty conditions prior to been sent away and they chose to ignore them and get it repaired anyway.

Anyway a few days later and I had a polite call advising me that a brand new replacement unit was waiting for me.

Moral of the story is, don't rely on the retailer to advise you of what your rights are, they will take the cheapest route possible, know your rights, go armed with the printed out section of the CGA or FTA and be nice about it, no yelling, no threats, no bad language, If there is a problem write down in a notebook who told your what, and if you have to escalate things write a letter or email.

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#1715586 4-Feb-2017 23:32

tdgeek:

It can't be determined if its a serious fault. It may well be a small failure in a wire or component, and it gets fixed.

If it doesn't turn on, it's a serious fault. It doesn't matter if that fault is caused by a small component failure or if it's burst into flames and burned to the ground. It's not like it has a rattle in a speaker that doesn't significantly alter its function - that would be considered a small fault that the retailer must be first given the opportunity to rectify.

The OP is entitled to reject the TV under the CGA as a "Failure of substantial character".

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#1715595 5-Feb-2017 01:00

Well, thanks for enlightening us dejadeadnz. Good luck aiyaznz - hopefully it wasn't a fault caused by a brownout and you'll get what you seek.

CYaBro

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#1715611 5-Feb-2017 06:40

So what I'm getting from this is that when my new Suzuki wouldn't start I should have rejected the repair and asked for a brand new one?!
I mean a car that won't start is surely a serious fault as I can't use it at all.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

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k1w1k1d

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#1715638 5-Feb-2017 09:32

I agree with CYaBro on this.

All products have the potential for a percentage to have a problem early in its life that needs to be rectified. This is why we have warranties on these products, so that the supplier is required to make these repairs at no cost to the consumer, and in a timely manner. The supplier has the option to repair or replace the product as circumstances dictate. These conditions are usually written in the sale agreement when the product was purchased.

The OP has a new TV that has developed a fault. He has contacted the supplier and they have arranged to pick up the TV. They will check it out and make the necessary repairs, or possibly replace it if there is a major defect. At this stage the cause is unknown, so everything is just speculation. It could be as simple as a loose plug, or as major as a blown screen etc. Hopefully this assessment and repairs/replacement will be done quickly.

So far the supplier appears to be meeting their warranty obligations.

Wading in waving the CGA and demanding a replacement is not going to do much, except probably piss the supplier off. (Things can really go slow then!)

Having been on both sides of the fence, it is better to be polite and civil. Certainly ask questions about the process, and how long it will take. Ask if the TV will be repaired locally, or sent away to a national repair facility. Ask to be kept informed on developments. Get the name and contact details for the person handling the warranty claim. Ask if they have a loaner that you can use while your TV is away.

If after a reasonable about of time they start to muck you about, don't get back to you, don't answer your questions on what is happening, can't advise when the TV will be back, etc, it will be time to go in with the CGA in hand and demand that they meet their obligations.

richms

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#1715665 5-Feb-2017 10:23

I will also add, if they are taking the TV away for repair its really easy to mark it from handling. If it wasnt re-wrapped in the nice foam blanket and the stock box its very hard to move a TV without marking it. I would be wary of accepting a repair without giving it a good look over for new scratches etc.

Richard rich.ms

aiyaznz

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#1715666 5-Feb-2017 10:26

richms:

I will also add, if they are taking the TV away for repair its really easy to mark it from handling. If it wasnt re-wrapped in the nice foam blanket and the stock box its very hard to move a TV without marking it. I would be wary of accepting a repair without giving it a good look over for new scratches etc.

Ya I am quite worried about this too as they mentioned they will wrap it with blankets and take it. But I wont know if they will be making new scratches on it in the process. This is why I want a replacement/refund. I dont want a product that works for a month and a HALF I want one that will work as expected of these new TVs. I imagine years before a fault. A month and a half is BS.

dejadeadnz

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#1715669 5-Feb-2017 10:37

k1w1k1d:

I agree with CYaBro on this.

All products have the potential for a percentage to have a problem early in its life that needs to be rectified. This is why we have warranties on these products, so that the supplier is required to make these repairs at no cost to the consumer, and in a timely manner. The supplier has the option to repair or replace the product as circumstances dictate. These conditions are usually written in the sale agreement when the product was purchased.

I know it might seem amazing but you actually can't contract out of the CGA, so not a word of what's written in the sale T & Cs is relevant to a consumer's legal rights unless the T & Cs actually give the consumers more rights than they already have under the CGA. And I love how this sort of thinking is always so one-sided -- if only a relatively low percentage of items tend to break early on in their lifecycle, it's all the more reason for retailers and manufacturers to behave reasonably. If upon a quick assessment , the TV here is found to be faulty, given how new it is and the cost of labour etc, the sensible thing to do is to just replace or refund out of goodwill, quite aside from any of the OP's legal rights.

As a consumer and having had something similar happen to me a few months ago(a high end gaming monitor that I bought developed a couple of stuck pixels within 3 weeks and that probably wasn't what one would class as a substantial failure), the retailer concerned replaced my monitor on the spot. There are decent people/entities out there -- it's time consumers start expecting more rather than constantly expecting the bare minimum or worse.

tdgeek

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#1715677 5-Feb-2017 11:07

dejadeadnz:
k1w1k1d:

I agree with CYaBro on this.

All products have the potential for a percentage to have a problem early in its life that needs to be rectified. This is why we have warranties on these products, so that the supplier is required to make these repairs at no cost to the consumer, and in a timely manner. The supplier has the option to repair or replace the product as circumstances dictate. These conditions are usually written in the sale agreement when the product was purchased.

I know it might seem amazing but you actually can't contract out of the CGA, so not a word of what's written in the sale T & Cs is relevant to a consumer's legal rights unless the T & Cs actually give the consumers more rights than they already have under the CGA. And I love how this sort of thinking is always so one-sided -- if only a relatively low percentage of items tend to break early on in their lifecycle, it's all the more reason for retailers and manufacturers to behave reasonably. If upon a quick assessment , the TV here is found to be faulty, given how new it is and the cost of labour etc, the sensible thing to do is to just replace or refund out of goodwill, quite aside from any of the OP's legal rights.

As a consumer and having had something similar happen to me a few months ago(a high end gaming monitor that I bought developed a couple of stuck pixels within 3 weeks and that probably wasn't what one would class as a substantial failure), the retailer concerned replaced my monitor on the spot. There are decent people/entities out there -- it's time consumers start expecting more rather than constantly expecting the bare minimum or worse.

I think what some are feeling, is that if a TV or a car won't start, it's automatically a substantial fault, so automatically replace, end of story. If both examples were loose wires, it seems unreasonable to replace when a simple repair will fix it. If the fault was more severe, then we don't want a device returned to us that has had to have big repairs.

Your monitor. I would call that substantial as it is highly unlikely the pixels can be fixed, and if they could be re fired up, what will they be like Ina year? A monitor is a visual device so the screen image is what you bought. Just my opinion.

I have mentioned before, but CGA threads are more often about the retailer and manufacturer not stepping up, not about being anti consumer. At least here anyway. This thread, it's about a potential easy fix, and repair or replace. But good to get more insight to the Act.

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k1w1k1d

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#1715680 5-Feb-2017 11:12

From Consumer.org website;

"If the problem is minor, and can be fixed, the retailer can choose to either repair, replace or refund.

If the problem can’t be fixed, or can’t be put right within a reasonable time, or is substantial, you can:

Reject the product and choose a replacement of the same type and similar value or a full refund of your purchase price; or
Claim compensation for any drop in the value of the product or service.
Cancel the service contract, pay for any satisfactory work already done, and get someone else to finish the repairs; or
Have it repaired elsewhere and recover the costs from the retailer, if they refuse to fix a faulty product, or fail to do so in a reasonable time.

Substantial means:

A reasonable consumer wouldn’t have bought the goods if they’d known about the fault.
The goods are significantly different from their description, sample or demonstration model.
The goods are substantially unfit for purpose.
The goods are unsafe."

I don't see how the OP can demand a new TV from the above.

dejadeadnz

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#1715684 5-Feb-2017 11:19

k1w1k1d:

Substantial means:

A reasonable consumer wouldn’t have bought the goods if they’d known about the fault.
The goods are significantly different from their description, sample or demonstration model.
The goods are substantially unfit for purpose.
The goods are unsafe."
I don't see how the OP can demand a new TV from the above.

If you'd actually bother to read the whole thread before posting, you'd have noted that the above has already been posted and that I've already done an additional analysis of the CGA. Can you please, outside of just asserting a conclusion, tell the rest of us why exactly a TV that doesn't turn on at all isn't a substantial failure? Remember, the definition of "substantial" provided above are disjunctives, i.e. only one of the above has to be met. Do you really think a reasonable consumer would have bought the TV if they had known that it wouldn't turn on?

Tdgeek: the law doesn't care about your or anyone else's subjective views as to what's fair. The Act is clearly written -- if you don't like it, take it up with a MP.

cadman

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#1715696 5-Feb-2017 12:25

k1w1k1d: All products have the potential for a percentage to have a problem early in its life that needs to be rectified. This is why we have warranties on these products, so that the supplier is required to make these repairs at no cost to the consumer, and in a timely manner. The supplier has the option to repair or replace the product as circumstances dictate. These conditions are usually written in the sale agreement when the product was purchased.

The CGA can override the warranty if the consumer chooses to use it. The protections it offers are often far superior.

k1w1k1d: The OP has a new TV that has developed a fault. He has contacted the supplier and they have arranged to pick up the TV. They will check it out and make the necessary repairs, or possibly replace it if there is a major defect. At this stage the cause is unknown, so everything is just speculation. It could be as simple as a loose plug, or as major as a blown screen etc. Hopefully this assessment and repairs/replacement will be done quickly.

As I previously wrote, the consumer doesn't have to agree to a repair. He has the option of rejecting the TV outright and requiring a refund or replacement.

k1w1k1d: So far the supplier appears to be meeting their warranty obligations.

The point it it's the consumer's right, if he wishes to exercise it, to reject their offer of repair in this circumstance.

k1w1k1d: Wading in waving the CGA and demanding a replacement is not going to do much, except probably piss the supplier off. (Things can really go slow then!)

I don't think anybody is suggesting he do that (I haven't read the entire thread though) but that he has the option of asserting his rights under the CGA and require a replacement. If the retailer has a problem with that, they should take a look at their own attitude and professionalism especially if they consider that customers being assertive as to their rights are somehow deserving of a lesser level of service for doing so.

k1w1k1d: Having been on both sides of the fence, it is better to be polite and civil. Certainly ask questions about the process, and how long it will take. Ask if the TV will be repaired locally, or sent away to a national repair facility. Ask to be kept informed on developments. Get the name and contact details for the person handling the warranty claim. Ask if they have a loaner that you can use while your TV is away.

If after a reasonable about of time they start to muck you about, don't get back to you, don't answer your questions on what is happening, can't advise when the TV will be back, etc, it will be time to go in with the CGA in hand and demand that they meet their obligations.

There's nothing at all wrong with simply doing that from the outset though.

k1w1k1d

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#1715697 5-Feb-2017 12:32

I have read the whole thread and am amazed at why some people start screaming and shouting about invoking the CGA for the fault with this TV.

The supplier has arranged to pick up the TV and check it out. Once they have assessed the cause of the fault, they will make a call as to whether to repair or replace the TV. They are honouring the terms of their warranty and the CGA.

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