Charges filed against Noel Leeming for misrepresenting consumers’ rights

Forums › Off topic › Charges filed against Noel Leeming for misrepresenting consumers’ rights

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#2004159 28-Apr-2018 15:59

mattwnz:

On the flip side, I have tried to get after sales support from Apple directly and made CGA claim with them due to a known issue, and they ignored it. The person I spoke to said they weren't aware of the CGA, and they would need to get someone to get back to me, but they never did. Luckily I purchased from a NZ retailer so I asked for them to sort it out directly.

It is disappointing to hear anecdotes like this, but at least if you're dealing with Apple you can point them to this page on their own site.

jarledb

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#2004167 28-Apr-2018 16:23

alasta:

mattwnz:

On the flip side, I have tried to get after sales support from Apple directly and made CGA claim with them due to a known issue, and they ignored it. The person I spoke to said they weren't aware of the CGA, and they would need to get someone to get back to me, but they never did. Luckily I purchased from a NZ retailer so I asked for them to sort it out directly.

It is disappointing to hear anecdotes like this, but at least if you're dealing with Apple you can point them to this page on their own site.

First: Deal with the retailer first. Retail stores shouldn't be allowed to get away with referring us to the manufacturer. The claim is with the retailer first and foremost.

Second: We just have to hold Apples feet to the fire when it comes to adhering by the CGA. They have gotten really good at keeping to the rules in Norway, where there are similar rules in place. Last time I was in contact with Apple in Norway the service representative even volunteered a court ruling in Norway that states that the laptop batteries should be good for 5 years.

I have had experience with having to remind them on the Norwegian "CGA", but when I did it was like pushing a button and they dealt with it well. But I admit I think they shouldn't have had to be "pushed"/reminded. But thats years ago, and my last interaction mentioned above was really good.

So I think its just a matter of making sure that they become fully aware of their responsibilities vs. the CGA in New Zealand.

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Dunnersfella

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#2004191 28-Apr-2018 17:25

The extended warranty element is probably part of this issue...

Sales people are forced (and boy do I mean FORCED) to push extended warranties - from the desperation involved with this demand comes lines like "We will make it hard if things go wrong outside of the warranty period" etc.

As far as making sales staff criminally liable goes, probably not.

Many of these 'kids' are on minimum wage and are just trying to appease the people higher up and in doing so, crossing a line.

The focus needs to be further up the chain.

LV Martin used to campaign on 'it's the putting right that counts'.

Great.

Thing is, they were eaten alive and no longer exist... because, let's face it, many people simply focus on the lowest price and not service.

That's why electronics 'specialists' and whitegoods / kitchen specialists with bricks & mortar stores still have a place in this world. If you don't want to deal with HN / Noel's for your whitegoods - get ye posterior to Kitchen Things.

mattwnz

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#2004194 28-Apr-2018 17:41

Dunnersfella:

LV Martin used to campaign on 'it's the putting right that counts'.

Great.

Thing is, they were eaten alive and no longer exist... because, let's face it, many people simply focus on the lowest price and not service.

They didn't go out of business. They were purchased by smiths city. Then they phased out the brand and combined the stores into one large store. So smiths city at least in the hutt is pretty much what LV martins was, but now has more furniture stuff.

mattwnz

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#2004198 28-Apr-2018 17:45

alasta:

mattwnz:

On the flip side, I have tried to get after sales support from Apple directly and made CGA claim with them due to a known issue, and they ignored it. The person I spoke to said they weren't aware of the CGA, and they would need to get someone to get back to me, but they never did. Luckily I purchased from a NZ retailer so I asked for them to sort it out directly.

It is disappointing to hear anecdotes like this, but at least if you're dealing with Apple you can point them to this page on their own site.

Except when you are dealing with them on the phone they say that they can't comment on different countries laws, and they will have to get someone to get back to you, which never happened. Another person I spoke to said the CGA is only 2 years. So they told me that you get 1 year of apple warranty, and one year of CGA warranty, but I think that could be a case of them not understanding, as I told them that there is no specified time limit. That is why I would rather buy from a NZ retailer who knows the CGA, as it seems impossible to contact anyone in NZ from Apple.

Dunnersfella

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#2004199 28-Apr-2018 17:48

mattwnz:

Dunnersfella:

LV Martin used to campaign on 'it's the putting right that counts'.

Great.

Thing is, they were eaten alive and no longer exist... because, let's face it, many people simply focus on the lowest price and not service.

They didn't go out of business. They were purchased by smiths city. Then they phased out the brand and combined the stores into one large store. So smiths city at least in the hutt is pretty much what LV martins was, but now has more furniture stuff.

Technically, I didn't say they went out of business. I said they were eaten alive (they were) and no longer exist (which they do not).

Smiths took 10 years to pull the plug, but they were not the company they used to be by the end... many may be sad, but many more will be sad when Smith's follow them out of the market...

surfisup1000

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#2004206 28-Apr-2018 18:13

My worst CGA experiences have been Lenovo and Fisher & Paykel .

Fisher and paykel call center staff did not even know about the CGA. That is awful because I think I was speaking to a local call center so no excuse.

Contacting lenovo is almost impossible as they seem to run a ghost office. Then, their call center were based overseas and have no idea about new zealand consumer laws.

I also had a problem with my epson printer, which is probably 2 years old now but still has a major fault. I simply cannot get epson to acknowledge the consumer guarantees act exists.

There are huge issues with companies that sell into the market but run call centers from 3rd world countries.

The commerce commission does not seem to have any clues about the scale of the problem. Noel Leeming is just one of a long line of corporates that ignore consumer law.

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mattwnz

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#2004212 28-Apr-2018 18:36

Dunnersfella: Technically, I didn't say they went out of business. I said they were eaten alive (they were) and no longer exist (which they do not).

They did still seem to have a lot of loyal customers who purchased from them for their reputation, especially older generations who didn't really care as much about getting the lowest price. But HN I suspect, being above them in the complex, took a lot of their business, and who also tended to have a far bigger range. I was somewhat surprised they got rid of the brand, but was probably duplication of staff and accounting etc. Also I recall they did stop using the motto 'its the putting right that counts' sometime before the brand disappeared. But I wouldn't say I found LVs service any better than others, even in the 80's and 90's, there were just less retailers to select from back then. It is funny that we have now gone back to a smaller selection of physical retailers again, as we used to have a whole selection of different appliance retailers to buy from, but I guess the big difference is buying online, and some appliance brands now sell direct to the customer from Australia, without using NZ retailers. Retailers for some brands have just become agents.

pctek

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#2004227 28-Apr-2018 19:04

I found they all try it, all of them.

But if you skip the sales people or counter people and ask for the manager, insist actually, then mention CGA, you have no drama at all.

smalltrader

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#2004229 28-Apr-2018 19:11

A lot of people are knocking NL's service on this forum which I have no doubt are true events. Never the less, I would like to present my own personal experience on buying from NL both online and physical stores in the last 3 years. I bought a large number of white ware and electronic goods from NL in the last 3 years.

A F&P top end washing machine was dead within a week of taken delivery. F&P wanted to repair but it will take 3 weeks because of major parts failure. Contacted seller NL and it was replaced immediately. Bought a camera recently which have debris inside of the lens, most likely manufacturing defects. Bought camera to store and it was replaced immediately. I was asked if I wanted to buy extended warranty for the camera and I politely declined and there was no hard sell.

I really can't NL on their service when I needed them. Perhaps I just got lucky ... :-)

quickymart

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#2004251 28-Apr-2018 19:54

I remember LV Martin - and they got bought out by Smiths City? Dear God. What happened to LV's old shop on Lambton Quay?

Dial111

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#2004257 28-Apr-2018 20:09

To those knocking manufacturers for not recognising the CGA, did you try the retailer you bought these goods off first?

First and foremost that's who your contract is with, start there..

Bagging the manufacturer on a public forum without even giving the full story is just slander in my eyes.

mattwnz

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#2004296 28-Apr-2018 21:10

Dial111: To those knocking manufacturers for not recognising the CGA, did you try the retailer you bought these goods off first?

First and foremost that's who your contract is with, start there..

.

If you read the CGA, the consumer can choose to contact either the retailer or the manufacturer/NZ distributor. It is their choice. In many cases dealing with the manufacturer should be easier and faster for the consumer, as many will have support lines which provide technical advice and cover warranty issues etc. Usually you can get thing resolved quickly by doing things this way. This could be one reason why some retailers do suggest contacting the manufacturers 0800 number first. When we had a problem with an appliance this is what the retailer advised, and it got resolved fairly quickly.

Also is some cases the manufacturer is the retailer, if you buy it directly from the manufacturer.

Dial111

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#2004299 28-Apr-2018 21:29

mattwnz:
Dial111: To those knocking manufacturers for not recognising the CGA, did you try the retailer you bought these goods off first?

First and foremost that's who your contract is with, start there..

.

Suggest you read the CGA, as the consumer can choose to contact either the retailer or the manufacturer/NZ distributer. It is their choice. In many cases dealing with the manufacturer should be easier and faster for the consumer, as many will have support lines which provide technical advice and cover warranty issues etc. Usually you can get thing resolved quickly by doing things this way. This could be one reason why some retailers do suggest contacting the manufacturers 0800 number first.

Well your suggestion would be purely based on assumptions now wouldn't it as I know what the CGA states thank you.

My comment is referring to people slandering manufacturers with only providing half the story and not explaining whether they attempted to contact the retailer or not, we don't know, but based on some comments it's just "X gave me the run around, mislead me on my rights etc" was it an offshore call centre? that probably deals with many countries at any given time? If so I wouldn't expect them to know what each countries laws are. At times it would be far easier dealing with the local retailer.

Anyway, part of my point is, if people skip right over retailers then the likes of NL (in this instance) are free to continue misleading people and ultimately just flogging them off to deal with manufacturers, which if they did that to me my argument would be "why should I? I bought the product off you not them, you deal with them"

Dial111

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#2004300 28-Apr-2018 21:35

mattwnz:
Dial111: To those knocking manufacturers for not recognising the CGA, did you try the retailer you bought these goods off first?

First and foremost that's who your contract is with, start there..

.

Also is some cases the manufacturer is the retailer, if you buy it directly from the manufacturer.

exactly. But we don't know that as it was never stated. If you're going to name and shame a company and suggest not dealing with them, fine but give me the facts as to why, and what lead up to that point so I can make my own mind up, if you can't even bother to do that then it's just slander.

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