If cost wasn't an issue - NZ or Australia?

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#2025169 29-May-2018 21:00

dejadeadnz:

You couldn't pay me to live in Australia. As a socially liberal person, I find Australians' attitudes towards minorities and refugees to be fundamentally offensive to humanity -- NZers aren't perfect but we are far more enlightened in comparison. Furthermore, as someone who's concerned about civil liberties, the thought of living amongst Australian police is unthinkable. How many royal commissions on police corruption have they had?

My SO and I were best man/woman at a gay wedding in Sydney a few months ago.

On average I'd probably rate our Aussie friends as more liberal than our NZ friends.

The worst police corruption I've encountered first-hand was in NZ.

Racism I'd rate as about the same, both unacceptably high.

Australia take more refugees per capita than NZ does.

Just saying - it's dangerous to make generalisations, there are some things that Aus governments have done and do that appall me, but there are a hell of a lot of Australians who are not happy with Aus foreign policy in particular.

dejadeadnz

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#2025171 29-May-2018 21:09

Sure on some levels I agree with everything you've said. The difficulty I have is that the government has such an oversized impact upon how my world will be structured and how the polity that I will place myself within will be perceived by the rest of the world. The Turnbull government's attitude towards refugees is unconscionable -- chucking refugees into unsafe camps in PNG is both symbolically and factually so offensive that it's unforgivable.

On the police corruption front, despite my lack of love for the NZ police (having being a prosecutor, defence lawyer and lawyering for the judiciary, my general conclusion is that a conservative bunch dominated relatively poorly educated males don't tend to bode well for accountability), they are still far from the legalised gangs that many Australian police forces have been/probably still are, as revealed by the royal commissions.

MikeB4

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#2025174 29-May-2018 21:19

if one is considering a move to a new country it's not about the Government foreign policy, police corruption it's personal like cost of living, availability of health, education services and support when it all comes crashing down and that is where Australia fails completely for expat New Zealanders. The Australian government does not give a crap about New Zealanders living there. If their life comes crashing down the official line is they can bugger off back to New Zealand. This is the true reason why I would never move there.

dejadeadnz

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#2025179 29-May-2018 21:23

MikeB4:

if one is considering a move to a new country it's not about the Government foreign policy, police corruption it's personal like cost of living, availability of health, education services and support when it all comes crashing down and that is where Australia fails completely for expat New Zealanders. The Australian government does not give a crap about New Zealanders living there. If their life comes crashing down the official line is they can bugger off back to New Zealand. This is the true reason why I would never move there.

Excuse me but please speak only for yourself. Some of us do care about foreign policy and how a society treats the most vulnerable members of humanity as a factor for whether to live in a country.

MikeB4

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#2025183 29-May-2018 21:26

dejadeadnz:

MikeB4:

if one is considering a move to a new country it's not about the Government foreign policy, police corruption it's personal like cost of living, availability of health, education services and support when it all comes crashing down and that is where Australia fails completely for expat New Zealanders. The Australian government does not give a crap about New Zealanders living there. If their life comes crashing down the official line is they can bugger off back to New Zealand. This is the true reason why I would never move there.

Excuse me but please speak only for yourself. Some of us do care about foreign policy and how a society treats the most vulnerable members of humanity as a factor for whether to live in a country.

You miss understood me. I was speaking on a personal bases hence my final line "This is the true reason why I would never move there."

Fred99

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#2025185 29-May-2018 21:29

I believe that the basis for the Turnbull govt attitude to "refugees" is that they're not "refugees" at all, but asylum seekers some of whom are "economic refugees" who paid traffickers to get them there. It would open the floodgates.

It's a hard nosed approach, actually goes back to John Howard who campaigned on it very successfully in the '90s. It's obviously incredibly unfair to many, but I don't have an answer which can't be disputed rationally by a legitimate counter claim that to grant those asylum seekers refugee status when resources allocated to "genuine" refugees are limited, this disadvantages "genuine" asylum seekers. And on genuine refugees, Australia is "pulling its weight" by global comparison.

It is a global issue. And due to lack of global action, it's become yet another "wicked problem" which defies any indisputably correct and fair solution.

First point of blame, perhaps and IMO, are the veto nations in the UN. USA and Russia in particular.

KiwiTim

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#2025309 30-May-2018 08:10

Having studied at 4 different universities, one in NZ, two in AU and one in US, I have to say Australian universities are outstanding; better funded and more facilities. The course work I did in Australia always seemed very well prepared and extremely professional. With the better funding and higher salaries, Australian universities seem to be able to attract very high quality staff. If I had my time again I would have done all my tertiary study at a high quality Australian university.

If you like heat and humidity, then the East coast of Australia is great. If you don't, come to NZ.

There seems to be disproportionately more crime and social dysfunction in the US. My guess that is the huge economic disparities and poor social welfare systems within communities there drives crime levels. Desperate people do desperate things.

In Australia, on the other hand, even relatively low skilled jobs pay a reasonable wage and the social welfare system is well supported (compared to the US).

Being a Kiwi, I'm not without bias, but I tend to find the fresh food produce tastes better in NZ and people are generally more welcoming and friendlier than either AU or US. In NZ and AU, people are pretty straight up; if they don't like you, you know (especially in AU); however, people in the US seem to often be very polite and friendly, but it somehow feels less genuine and perhaps that politeness is more of a social norm rather than genuine friendliness.

For climate, tertiary study, high salaries and career opportunities Australia wins.

For friendly folks, great tasting food, stunning landscapes, NZ wins.

As for the US, well, the burghers are tasty, but that's about the best of it. Too crowded, too crazy and too dangerous.

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MileHighKiwi

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#2025324 30-May-2018 08:41

I prefer cooler weather, Australia is just too hot for me. Nice for a holiday but I couldn’t live there. I also don’t like apartment living and almost everyone I know in Australia lives in one. When I have holidayed there I’ve noticed some food items and certainly petrol are more affordable, but taxes, road toals, insurance, rego etc are much more expensive than here.

There’s a neat website called www.numbeo.com which allows you to compare the cost of living between Aus and NZ.

Here’s a snapshot of costs between Wellington and Sydney (using Sydney as a comparison cos that's where most of my mates over there live).

Consumer Prices in Wellington are 11.28% lower than in Sydney
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Wellington are 22.06% lower than in Sydney
Rent Prices in Wellington are 37.65% lower than in Sydney
Restaurant Prices in Wellington are 3.30% lower than in Sydney
Groceries Prices in Wellington are 8.93% lower than in Sydney

The biggie for me is childcare costs!

Our friends in Sydney pay about $150 AUD per day. We pay $65 NZD in Wellington.

The money is better over there but in my line of work not a huge amount of difference. I could make about $30K a year more in Mel or Syd than I do in Wellington, but I couldn’t afford to buy a house there. I feel my money goes further here.

Putting all that aside though I can see why Aussie is attractive to so many kiwis and I have friends who have done very well over there, but it’s not for our family.

We’re lucky to have the choice though, how many millions of people would kill for the chance to live in Aus OR NZ?

reven

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#2025398 30-May-2018 09:59

NZ. No dangerous creatures. Every time I see someone in their garden in Aus, I cringe.

kingdragonfly

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#2025443 30-May-2018 10:57

KiwiTim: As for the US, well, the burghers are tasty, but that's about the best of it. Too crowded, too crazy and too dangerous.

US Cons: I find the IT salaries are on-par, and sometimes better, in NZ.

Work-life balance is the US is terrible, such as there's no minimum days-off, or even minimum number of sick-days.

Deadly crime is much worse in the US.

Neutral: Non-violent property crime is also on-par with the US.

US Pros: house prices and consumer items versus wages are much better.

kingdragonfly

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#2025457 30-May-2018 11:03

MileHighKiwi: There’s a neat website called www.numbeo.com which allows you to compare the cost of living between Aus and NZ.

As usual, New Zealand is left off the map (but on the pull-down list)

Rikkitic

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#2025544 30-May-2018 11:43

As stated my strong preference is NZ, but if cost really wasn't an issue, it could be fun to live in a Sydney Harbour mansion for awhile. There are some pretty amazing castles there for people with many, many millions.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Wiggum

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#2025581 30-May-2018 12:01

MikeB4:

if one is considering a move to a new country it's not about the Government foreign policy, police corruption it's personal like cost of living, availability of health, education services and support when it all comes crashing down and that is where Australia fails completely for expat New Zealanders. The Australian government does not give a crap about New Zealanders living there. If their life comes crashing down the official line is they can bugger off back to New Zealand. This is the true reason why I would never move there.

Thats quiet an assumption Mike and that quote is horribly wrong. Kiwis in Australia with Aussie citizenship are treated no differently to other Aussies. Problem with Kiwis is when we move to Australia, we never do it properly, ie apply for residence, apply for aussie citizenship etc.

Australia is an open door for all of us (except criminals). Australia has a generosity to just allow us to go there, live there permanently, and even work. All without obtaining permanent residence. People from every other county in the world have many hurdles to cross to get into Australia, to live there and have the right to work.

I think the problem is more with Kiwi culture, and dare I say a bit of self entitlement too. If you want the benefits of welfare/pension/voting rights in Australia then do what every other person from every other country has to do. Earn that right and become a Aussie Citizen. It does not mean you have to lose your kiwi citizenship either.

MikeB4

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#2025605 30-May-2018 12:41

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

if one is considering a move to a new country it's not about the Government foreign policy, police corruption it's personal like cost of living, availability of health, education services and support when it all comes crashing down and that is where Australia fails completely for expat New Zealanders. The Australian government does not give a crap about New Zealanders living there. If their life comes crashing down the official line is they can bugger off back to New Zealand. This is the true reason why I would never move there.

Thats quiet an assumption Mike and that quote is horribly wrong. Kiwis in Australia with Aussie citizenship are treated no differently to other Aussies. Problem with Kiwis is when we move to Australia, we never do it properly, ie apply for residence, apply for aussie citizenship etc.

Australia is an open door for all of us (except criminals). Australia has a generosity to just allow us to go there, live there permanently, and even work. All without obtaining permanent residence. People from every other county in the world have many hurdles to cross to get into Australia, to live there and have the right to work.

I think the problem is more with Kiwi culture, and dare I say a bit of self entitlement too. If you want the benefits of welfare/pension/voting rights in Australia then do what every other person from every other country has to do. Earn that right and become a Aussie Citizen. It does not mean you have to lose your kiwi citizenship either.

now consider the support we offer Australians here then come back to me.

Wiggum

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#2025630 30-May-2018 12:52

MikeB4:

now consider the support we offer Australians here then come back to me.

I don't think its right that us taxpayers in New Zealand foot the welfare bill for unemployed Aussies (non NZ residents/NZ citizens) who chose to live here in NZ. Those Aussies living here who chose not to take up NZ citizenship/permanent residence don't deserve our welfare. Its now wonder this country is running out of money.

Same goes for Kiwis (non AUS residents/AUS citizens) in Aus. Why should working Aussies foot the bill so that kiwis can just come into their country and live off their welfare system? I certainly would not be happy if I was an Aussie citizen.

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