Signs that this TradeMe seller is flogging stolen kit or am I paranoid??

Forums › Off topic › Signs that this TradeMe seller is flogging stolen kit or am I paranoid??

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#2123737 11-Nov-2018 21:42

Well done for sticking with your gut assessment and passing up a bargain - greed too often overcomes good sense.

Item:

Geektastic: Just report your concerns to Trade Me.

On what basis? I haven't been scammed and I don't have anything other than vague speculation that the seller is doing anything dodgy. His track record suggests he has plenty of happy buyers in the last few years.

You don't have to be scammed before you can report a listing or a trader. Sometimes you will be doing a public service.

I've seen Trade Me remove listings or block traders due to false statements, suspected stolen goods, suspected fraudulent activity e.g. listed item does not exist, hacked accounts, and underage users e.g. child using parent's account.

Trade Me also has access to a lot more information than you have about the seller and their behaviour. The most obvious advantage for websites is that they can see IP addresses and can track patterns of behaviour.

In your case, the trader is probably not entirely truthful in their description and may well be breaking the law regarding their income and tax status. Either fault is sufficient to break the Code of Conduct and the Terms & Conditions:

Trade Me Code of Conduct

This code sets out principles and behaviours that the Trade Me community reasonably expects of buyers and sellers participating in online auctions.

Basic Principles

The community expects buyers and sellers to:

Conduct themselves honestly and in good faith at all times.
Comply with all laws, including sale of goods and intellectual property laws.

Trade Me Terms & Conditions

GENERAL RULES

General

All listings, bids or communications made through Trade Me shall be made in good faith.

Boeingflyer

643 posts

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#2123774 11-Nov-2018 22:08

I'm currently in a 'limbo' period with a seller over a $1000 item. Was brand new but just before sending it, he inspected it and noticed a part was broken, supposedly took it back to the shop and it will be replaced in a couple of days and then he will send it. He offered to refund my money though but that could be another tactic.
I reckon he's interest freed the item and needs the cash. Found him on Facebook, looks legit, his girlfriend looks legit etc. I have sent trademe an email to check him out.
Going to be bulls*it if i've been done over which i have a feeling is going to be.

premiumtouring

355 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2124552 13-Nov-2018 07:24

Boeingflyer: I'm currently in a 'limbo' period with a seller over a $1000 item. Was brand new but just before sending it, he inspected it and noticed a part was broken, supposedly took it back to the shop and it will be replaced in a couple of days and then he will send it. He offered to refund my money though but that could be another tactic.
I reckon he's interest freed the item and needs the cash. Found him on Facebook, looks legit, his girlfriend looks legit etc. I have sent trademe an email to check him out.
Going to be bulls*it if i've been done over which i have a feeling is going to be.

Why wouldn't you take the refund, and then tell him to touch base with you when he hears back about getting it fixed/repaired?

sbiddle

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#2124557 13-Nov-2018 08:06

skewt:
tripp: You can put iPads on monthly payments with spark can't you? I see a lot of it on Facebook where people sign up to plans with monthly payments for phones and then sell the phones for cash. Spark uses to imei block them when people stopped paying but think they were told to stop abusing the black listing system.

Spark still add them to the blacklist. They just claim it’s “fraud”

And pretty much everybody including the TCF deny the blacklist is being abused despite the fact it is.

Quite frankly if you buy a phone from anybody other than somebody you know and trust or a legitimate store you're simply playing a game of Russian roulette. There is absolutely no way for you to know if your phone is legit and won't be blocked in the future, and IMHO that's an incredibly poor form from the whole industry and in particular the TCF who really are condoning what is happening.

I wrote about this earlier in the year and things are only getting worse https://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/8982

If phones are being used as security (which is essentially what Spark are doing despite claiming otherwise) that should be lodged on the PPSR but Spark aren't doing that.

sir1963

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#2125002 13-Nov-2018 19:52

Item:

Dial111: Ask for a receipt, if one cannot be provided then walk away, not worth the risk.

Trust your gut feeling.

I asked - there is no receipt.

With a valid NZ Purchase date tied to the serial, what do you reckon the scheme is? Seems odd they would have these devices and no receipt each time, but it is a legit local device.

Dodgy returns or credit card scam or something?

(or still needless paranoia!)

Ask them to get a copy of the receipt , they know where and when they bought it and most retailers would be able to look it up based on the method of payment.

Goosey

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#2125005 13-Nov-2018 20:04

Boeingflyer: "...his girlfriend looks legit....."

comment of the day!

Aredwood

3885 posts

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#2125059 13-Nov-2018 20:54

sbiddle:
skewt:
tripp: You can put iPads on monthly payments with spark can't you? I see a lot of it on Facebook where people sign up to plans with monthly payments for phones and then sell the phones for cash. Spark uses to imei block them when people stopped paying but think they were told to stop abusing the black listing system.

Spark still add them to the blacklist. They just claim it’s “fraud”

And pretty much everybody including the TCF deny the blacklist is being abused despite the fact it is.

Quite frankly if you buy a phone from anybody other than somebody you know and trust or a legitimate store you're simply playing a game of Russian roulette. There is absolutely no way for you to know if your phone is legit and won't be blocked in the future, and IMHO that's an incredibly poor form from the whole industry and in particular the TCF who really are condoning what is happening.

I wrote about this earlier in the year and things are only getting worse https://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/8982

If phones are being used as security (which is essentially what Spark are doing despite claiming otherwise) that should be lodged on the PPSR but Spark aren't doing that.

The Telcos are also playing everyone on the value of a phone Vs the cost of obtaining a court judgement.

I highly doubt that the Telcos are actually filing Police reports for any of these claimed fraud cases involving phones. But good luck trying to convince a judge that there is fraud involved, if they are not filing Police reports.

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mudguard

2113 posts

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#2125071 13-Nov-2018 21:41

sbiddle:

If phones are being used as security (which is essentially what Spark are doing despite claiming otherwise) that should be lodged on the PPSR but Spark aren't doing that.

This is tricky one. The company I work for doesn't register security on the items we finance, they turn over to a third party too quickly. If I was a Telco I wouldn't bother registering items on the PPSR when you can simply blacklist the device, it's far more elegant than registering and releasing security on low priced goods.

Obviously it sucks for the third party buying and perhaps there should be more visibility, but on the other hand, why should the Telco's share the info? The credit contract is between the consumer and the Telco, repossession, court costs or even lodging defaults all cost money. When I assume to blacklist a device costs them nothing.

premiumtouring

355 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2125226 14-Nov-2018 06:54

mudguard:

sbiddle:

If phones are being used as security (which is essentially what Spark are doing despite claiming otherwise) that should be lodged on the PPSR but Spark aren't doing that.

This is tricky one. The company I work for doesn't register security on the items we finance, they turn over to a third party too quickly. If I was a Telco I wouldn't bother registering items on the PPSR when you can simply blacklist the device, it's far more elegant than registering and releasing security on low priced goods.

Obviously it sucks for the third party buying and perhaps there should be more visibility, but on the other hand, why should the Telco's share the info? The credit contract is between the consumer and the Telco, repossession, court costs or even lodging defaults all cost money. When I assume to blacklist a device costs them nothing.

Is $1k-$2.5k considered low priced goods in the finance game? That's how much some of these devices can run. I thought $250-$300 was considered low value, hence it being the minimum finance amount for most interest free offers.

DarthKermit

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#2125228 14-Nov-2018 07:03

You know what's funny? There's a system in place to check if a car you're interested in buying still has money owing on it by a previous owner, but there ain't one for phones and the like. Some of these phones can cost more than a second hand car.

premiumtouring

355 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2125232 14-Nov-2018 07:08

DarthKermit:

You know what's funny? There's a system in place to check if a car you're interested in buying still has money owing on it by a previous owner, but there ain't one for phones and the like. Some of these phones can cost more than a second hand car.

That's literally what I was thinking. I'm so surprised that there isn't a cheap register for phones to stop this sort of scam. It's like people are using them for interest free pay day loans. Some of the excuses these scammers are using sound genuine, so you can't expect the average person to pick up on the ruse.

sbiddle

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#2125240 14-Nov-2018 07:24

premiumtouring:

DarthKermit:

You know what's funny? There's a system in place to check if a car you're interested in buying still has money owing on it by a previous owner, but there ain't one for phones and the like. Some of these phones can cost more than a second hand car.

That's literally what I was thinking. I'm so surprised that there isn't a cheap register for phones to stop this sort of scam. It's like people are using them for interest free pay day loans. Some of the excuses these scammers are using sound genuine, so you can't expect the average person to pick up on the ruse.

Exactly. The TCF and Spark are fuelling a crime fad and quite simply ignorant of what they're doing.

The fact there is no way to check a handset quite simply puts all the risk onto the buyer and as I mentioned above buying any 2nd hand phone from anybody you don't know well carries a risk that it will be blacklisted. Spark also will not confirm any details about a handset if you contact them so you're basically on your own buying a phone.

premiumtouring

355 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2125243 14-Nov-2018 07:32

sbiddle:
premiumtouring:

DarthKermit:

You know what's funny? There's a system in place to check if a car you're interested in buying still has money owing on it by a previous owner, but there ain't one for phones and the like. Some of these phones can cost more than a second hand car.

That's literally what I was thinking. I'm so surprised that there isn't a cheap register for phones to stop this sort of scam. It's like people are using them for interest free pay day loans. Some of the excuses these scammers are using sound genuine, so you can't expect the average person to pick up on the ruse.

Exactly. The TCF and Spark are fuelling a crime fad and quite simply ignorant of what they're doing.

The fact there is no way to check a handset quite simply puts all the risk onto the buyer and as I mentioned above buying any 2nd hand phone from anybody you don't know well carries a risk that it will be blacklisted. Spark also will not confirm any details about a handset if you contact them so you're basically on your own buying a phone.

Who could we contact to implement some measures? Another problem associated with this issue is that it also artificially lowers the value for legitimate second hand sales.

mudguard

2113 posts

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#2126735 14-Nov-2018 17:26

premiumtouring:

Is $1k-$2.5k considered low priced goods in the finance game? That's how much some of these devices can run. I thought $250-$300 was considered low value, hence it being the minimum finance amount for most interest free offers.

Repossession costs I recall was close to $1000, I can't remember what it cost to list defaults. All the risk is with the finance company. As for phones, they're too low value to list on the PPSR register. As for phones costing as much as second hand cars, once cars get to a certain value they are unlikely to be used for any kind of security.

Nil Einne

469 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2129096 19-Nov-2018 05:04

Bung: The ipad is apparently NZ new. My impression of "duty free" is usually highest current RRP less gst.

Maybe OP could indicate price saving on this listing.

Is it possible to tell from the IMEI or serial number whether the device was actually sold in NZ rather than Australia?

If not, no reason to buy duty free. They can buy it from the cheapest Aussie retailer, keep the receipt and reclaim GST at airport if the product is over $300. There is no other tax on iPads or iPhones in Australia AFAIK. It's possible that the the Australian government will tell the NZ government this person keeps claiming TRS refunds, but I doubt it. They're only really interested in making sure that you aren't bringing stuff back into Australia and evading tax by not declaring them. Whether it's actually worth it doing that and reselling them, I don't know.

If it's really first sold in NZ there's no TRS here. (There is collection point scheme but I think the airport charges so much it's rarely worth it.) So you're probably right it wouldn't work

Edit: Just noticed OP said it's $300 below retail. I presume this is in NZ, but still even with the NZ "tax" and saving on GST, it seems unlikely it'll be worth it.

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