Operation Ironside raids

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#2720853 8-Jun-2021 18:26

jpoc:

What I do not get is that in the police press release they reported that had had seized all kinds of stuff - drugs, cash, utes etc - and then also "kilograms of iodine."

What's that for? It is neither a drug nor an ingredient of home brew explosive. Indeed, as far as I know, it is not illegal to possess it so what is the big deal?

Used in some processes as an intermediate for synthesis of methamphetamine.

Edit: IMO this isn't really indicative of catching "global drug cartels in NZ". More the small scale "clan labs" making meth from pseudoephedrine. There's no point doing it here for large scale operations - may as well just import ready made product from source - if you've got to get bulk pseudoephedrine into the country, may as well save yourself the bother and risk of doing anything except repacking.

snnet

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#2720871 8-Jun-2021 19:10

tchart:

It took me several months to open a business bank account for a legitimate registered company (so many hoops) but these organisatiosn just seem to get away with it. My own bank (who Ive been with for 20+ years) were very unhelpful.

Surely the better way to implement AML is through better detection of suspicious transactions rather than from the outset of opening an account.

Odd - I set up a business bank account in minutes - were you looking for lending options as well or something perhaps?

On a side note my parents' accounts had some very very old addresses on them, when they were being corrected the banker did make a joke that the AML would have meant they had the police the old addresses for raids etc...though I'm sure the police would have alternative information on file

Scotdownunder

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#2720887 8-Jun-2021 20:07

My take is breaking encryption is not needed to tackle organised crime. In some ways it makes it easier to identify.

This sting was based on the FBI providing the compromised encryption app. Hard to do again but in the future they could hack to servers hosting other ‘black’ encryption apps and add a backdoor just like the recent ‘poisoning’ of some github repos which flowed into genuine apps. Or again pre-load compromised apps on burner phones the criminals want to use, the same trojan horse tactic, especially if you can get someone on the inside to seed the system.

SaltyNZ

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#2720893 8-Jun-2021 20:22

Fred99:

Used in some processes as an intermediate for synthesis of methamphetamine.

Edit: IMO this isn't really indicative of catching "global drug cartels in NZ". More the small scale "clan labs" making meth from pseudoephedrine. There's no point doing it here for large scale operations - may as well just import ready made product from source - if you've got to get bulk pseudoephedrine into the country, may as well save yourself the bother and risk of doing anything except repacking.

Just as well they banned Sudafed with pseudoephedrine in preference for that useless phenylephrine stuff. Killed the meth problem overnight. Totally worth it.

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Bung

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#2720906 8-Jun-2021 21:02

You're joking! Did you miss the 500kg of Meth floated ashore on 90 Mile Beach in 2016, the Cocaine on Bethells Beach? The cooks have become coastwatchers.

Geektastic

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#2720960 8-Jun-2021 22:23

tchart:
Fred99:

who "facilitated" money laundering

Slightly off topic but what amazes me is that the AML (anti money laundering) legislation/checks dont seem to be effective.

It took me several months to open a business bank account for a legitimate registered company (so many hoops) but these organisatiosn just seem to get away with it. My own bank (who Ive been with for 20+ years) were very unhelpful.

Surely the better way to implement AML is through better detection of suspicious transactions rather than from the outset of opening an account.

Agreed. I saw a while ago an article about the cost AML places on legitimate business worldwide and it is truly vast. I forget the exact numbers but huge. It is also immensely unsuccessful in comparison to that cost, apparently.

The laugh is that the authorities will tell you it’s there “to protect you” when really it’s there to protect their revenue.

SaltyNZ

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#2720961 8-Jun-2021 22:24

Bung: You're joking!

No, I'm being sarcastic. This raid truly is a gift to miserable bastards such as myself. First they use the successful widespread deployment of a trojan app as proof that actually they need to be able to make strong encryption illegal, and now this.

They banned Sudafed because without it there would be no pseudoephedrine to make meth with. Apparently the idea that meth cooks might (and bear with me, because this is going to shock you so badly you might need a cup of tea and a lie down) break the law and just illegally import it in bulk from China didn't occur to them. But having now years of evidence to show that banning Sudafed made bugger-all difference to meth availability, have they taken it off the ban list again?

No, of course not! What has been banned cannot possibly be unbanned even though banning has no discernible positive effect, and plenty of obvious negatives!

So now whenever I have sinuses blocked so bad it feels like there's a bomb going off in my head there is no useful treatment unless I want to waste 2 hours of my time in the waiting room at the local medical centre so that I can waste 15 minutes of a doctor's time getting a prescription for it which I will take to a pharmacy so that can tell me they don't stock it anyway.

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Geektastic

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#2720967 8-Jun-2021 22:28

So how does this requirement of telecom companies to provide clear data affect Apple? Didn’t they have a big row with the FBI because they refused to unlock someone’s phone or decrypt it?

SaltyNZ

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#2720977 8-Jun-2021 22:52

Geektastic: So how does this requirement of telecom companies to provide clear data affect Apple? Didn’t they have a big row with the FBI because they refused to unlock someone’s phone or decrypt it?

In NZ? To the best of my knowledge at the moment it does not, because agencies currently have other ways into iPhones without Apple's cooperation. That said I am unsure whether an order in council demanding iMessage/Facetime be classed as telecommunications services could be classified meaning it may have already happened and nobody knows. Doubtful that kind of secret could be kept for long though: you'd expect rumours to get out.

Using TICSA would be a bit of a nuclear option - penalties for non-compliance would be hard for the NZ government to enforce against Apple without Apple just withdrawing from New Zealand. That would hurt, obviously, but potentially could be a good move in the overall game of chess whereby Apple plays up its privacy and security as a central pillar of value compared to the robot-based Linux skin.

I mean, if Apple withdrew in protest and publicly announced why, the government of the day would be gone by lunchtime and be replaced by whoever promised to rescind the order. You don't want to be the PM who bricks the nation's iPhones.

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elpenguino

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#2720997 8-Jun-2021 23:03

SaltyNZ:

Geektastic: So how does this requirement of telecom companies to provide clear data affect Apple? Didn’t they have a big row with the FBI because they refused to unlock someone’s phone or decrypt it?

In NZ? To the best of my knowledge at the moment it does not, because agencies currently have other ways into iPhones without Apple's cooperation.

Yupp. At least one Israeli company makes it their business to create tools to hack into iphones and sell them to governments, including those of repressive regimes.

https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/2016/0826/How-a-human-rights-activist-sparked-an-iPhone-security-update

Regarding the FBI row, the article has this to say:

"James Comey, the director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, revealed that the FBI paid hackers to get into the iPhone of one of the shooters in the San Bernardino, Calif. mass killing after Apple refused to design a back door entrance to aid in the investigation."

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2721012 9-Jun-2021 07:00

Question

Why did they let the cat out of the bag?

SaltyNZ

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#2721014 9-Jun-2021 07:22

I assume it was already burned for some other reason (probably because it would have had to be released during the trial of at least some of the higher profile offenders) so they made it into PR.

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Geektastic

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#2721022 9-Jun-2021 08:48

Let’s hope that the unpleasant people arrested are punished appropriately and not just slapped with a wet bus ticket.

Varkk

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#2721026 9-Jun-2021 08:52

I wonder if part of it was to spread a bit of FUD in other criminal networks who are using other means they can't currently intercept. This might make them pause, panic or otherwise make a mistake which will help the authorities catch on to them.

cruxis

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Ultimate Geek

#2721028 9-Jun-2021 09:07

I wonder if the FBI / police let murders or rapes happen, to keep the apps cover from being blown.

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