Smoking - Ban it?

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#1555744 19-May-2016 17:17

Smoking laws are fine now with outdoor areas etc. working well.

The main gripe I have is the people who drop their butts all around littering the place. I remember I was on an onramp during summer one day - guy threw the butt onto the side of the road and the plants caught fire. Had to rush out of my car to stamp it out before the whole side of the road caught alight! Punish all litterers!

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#1555752 19-May-2016 17:56

Zeon:

Smoking laws are fine now with outdoor areas etc. working well.

The main gripe I have is the people who drop their butts all around littering the place. I remember I was on an onramp during summer one day - guy threw the butt onto the side of the road and the plants caught fire. Had to rush out of my car to stamp it out before the whole side of the road caught alight! Punish all litterers!

I hate walking down Lambton Quay or anywhere similar, only to be fumigated by all the smokers standing round outside their office doorways!

gbwelly

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#1555753 19-May-2016 17:56

charlie there is free sandwich in the break room

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#1555754 19-May-2016 17:59

Rikkitic:

When I breathe in air I breathe out carbon dioxide. Dangerous stuff, that. It can even kill you. Maybe breathing in the presence of others should be banned.

Someone already pointed out the effect of noxious fumes from vehicles. If you drive yours anywhere near me, I will inhale some of your very nasty particulate matter and my life will probably be shortened by so many nanoseconds. Let’s ban vehicles.

Wood heaters create terrible air pollution and don’t do a lot for our carbon footprint, either. Ban ‘em.

Do you like meat? Sorry, those cows crapping everywhere and the fertiliser dumps to grow their food are destroying the environment, never mind the methane they emit. Ban those too.

Ban it ban it ban it. That’ll solve everything. Just look how it has eliminated marijuana from this country!

I'd agree with you about the wood heaters. All a bit 19th century to be honest, unless you are talking about modern pellet burners.

Masterton has one of the worst air quality ratings in a recent survey and I can well believe it. On a still winter afternoon, a pall of woodsmoke hangs over the place like some Hammer Horror set!

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#1555755 19-May-2016 18:00

Geektastic:

Zeon:

Smoking laws are fine now with outdoor areas etc. working well.

The main gripe I have is the people who drop their butts all around littering the place. I remember I was on an onramp during summer one day - guy threw the butt onto the side of the road and the plants caught fire. Had to rush out of my car to stamp it out before the whole side of the road caught alight! Punish all litterers!

I hate walking down Lambton Quay or anywhere similar, only to be fumigated by all the smokers standing round outside their office doorways!

In which year was the minute of the hour of the day that it was it calm enough so the smoke didn't get instantly blown to Chicago.

ludez

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#1555762 19-May-2016 18:24

networkn:
100% support the banning of smoking. Disgusting habit with zero positives from either a social or health perspective.

We discriminate on it as part of our recruitment process.

Exactly the same can be said for alcohol, that costs the tax payer more money, causes so many social problems,violence issues, selling to minors,11 kids getting drunk etc. The whole ban smoking thing is crazy let people do what they want with their lives and sort out the stuff that ACTUALLY causes harm in society

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#1555769 19-May-2016 18:55

CruciasNZ:

If second hand smoke wasn't toxic or really obnoxious (doubly so when you have a smoke sensitive form of asthma) then I would say let them kill themselves if they wish, but choosing to smoke should automatically opt them out of state funded healthcare related to breathing difficulties.

So, basically, you seem to think that an adult who does something that raises their risk of a health issue shouldn't be entitled to medical care? Even if the lack will kill them?

On that basis should we ban rugby players and motorcycle riders from the Burwood spinal unit?

Or plump people from getting dialysis if they get diabetes, or need a knee replacement?

Or trampers if they get exposure?

And keep those pesky race car drivers out of the burns unit if they should happen to crash?

Perhaps we should appoint someone as a Commissioner, and they could get a peaked cap and some gold braid, and sit in the accident and emergency department and decide who is morally worthy of having their life saved and who isn't?

Personally, I don't smoke and I never have. But I have no interest whatsoever in persecuting adults who choose to do so. As long as they don't smoke inside around me and excise on tobacco covers any additional costs (which it easily does) then, as far as I am concerned, it's purely their choice.

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#1555839 19-May-2016 22:02

gzt: If this was the annoyance thread I would mention the occasional vaper user who thinks it is harmless to others. The lack of particulates etc is a positive compared to smoking, but it is still a somewhat stinky nicotine containing cloud.

They don't "think", they know, they research, because they used to be smokers. Nicotine gets absorbed. You'll probably find more in a potato.

How do you know that cloud contains nicotine? Some vapers, like @michaelmurfy, and myself, don't use nicotine.

Do you breathe out? Have you ever eaten garlic? Why do I have to breathe in YOUR exhaled breath.

I'd rather the smell of cinnamon baked cookies (my current flavour), than someone breathing garlic breath, or halitosis.

Have you ever stood next to someone wearing cologne? Excessive perfume? That's probably worse for you.

Vaping is saving lives. And not hurting yours.

If you like, you can probably even ask a doctor... @NZtechfreak

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#1555841 19-May-2016 22:06

I'd love to have cars banned when I'm cycling, but not when I'm driving!

Fred99

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#1555843 19-May-2016 22:12

Geektastic:

Rikkitic:

When I breathe in air I breathe out carbon dioxide. Dangerous stuff, that. It can even kill you. Maybe breathing in the presence of others should be banned.

Someone already pointed out the effect of noxious fumes from vehicles. If you drive yours anywhere near me, I will inhale some of your very nasty particulate matter and my life will probably be shortened by so many nanoseconds. Let’s ban vehicles.

Wood heaters create terrible air pollution and don’t do a lot for our carbon footprint, either. Ban ‘em.

Do you like meat? Sorry, those cows crapping everywhere and the fertiliser dumps to grow their food are destroying the environment, never mind the methane they emit. Ban those too.

Ban it ban it ban it. That’ll solve everything. Just look how it has eliminated marijuana from this country!

I'd agree with you about the wood heaters. All a bit 19th century to be honest, unless you are talking about modern pellet burners.

Masterton has one of the worst air quality ratings in a recent survey and I can well believe it. On a still winter afternoon, a pall of woodsmoke hangs over the place like some Hammer Horror set!

Good lord. Wood burners are relatively carbon neutral. It's not rocket science to work that one out.

Burning dry wood, IIRC the quantity of particulates per kg wood burned on old burners, the old Kents and Yuncas etc, was something like 15-20g. I think the national standard for new burners is 1.5, and 1.0 in Chch and Nelson (Dunedin too?) I think the one I installed is about 0.7, there are some which are below 0.5. Simple version - up to 20 times less polluting than the log burners still in widespread use in places where they're either still allowed - or if not, then there's nobody checking.

If councils would nail people using open fires (many times worse than even the old log-burners), and introduce policies to replace old log-burners, and educate people to not burn garbage and wet wood, then that solves most of the problem. Chch back in the early '80s was disgustingly foul - not perfect now - but a massive improvement.

Another side to this is what you can't see might be worse than what you can. Nobody seems to care a rat's bum about stratified fuel injected cars (ie most new cars now) and the high levels of very small particulates emitted - for which there's growing evidence that gram for gram, they're orders of magnitude worse than sooty smoke, as rather than just clog up your lungs and make you cough up black phlegm, the particles are small enough to go directly into the bloodstream.

NZtechfreak

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#1555845 19-May-2016 22:19

Regards vaping:

Secondhand vapor is not harmful to bystanders.

Nicotine is not poisonous in the doses that vapers and smokers are exposed to . If you know basic pharmacology you understand that the dose makes the poison.

It is not present in sufficient quantities in the vapor from e-cigarettes to cause a physiological response in people inhaling it secondhand.

It is not a carcinogen.

It is a stimulant, it increases alertness and mental performance and it transiently increases heart rate and blood pressure but robust evidence from long term users of NRT shows this is not associated with increased rates of heart disease or stroke.

Realistically nicotine is on the same level as caffeine . The only really bad thing about nicotine is that until recently we've combusted tobacco to consume it.

References: Primarily the 200-page tobacco control report from the Royal College of Physicians in the UK , which I have read end-to-end, and is a comprehensive review of all the data including many landmark studies like the 5-year Lung Health Study (I have read a good many of the studies referenced also).

Vaping represents the most significant public health advance in perhaps the last 50 years.

Regards vapers blowing clouds over others in public - I agree, they should exercise the same kind of etiquette as smokers have learned to abide by and be considerate of bystanders. Certainly when I vape, and I do vape with nicotine, I am careful because I think that's just being courteous and decent.

Regards banning smoking? I wouldn't shed any tears.

The attitude that smokers shouldn't be allowed access to public healthcare however is frankly disgusting.

The attitude that smokers are all "idiots" and "stupid" is also repugnant. Most people first try smoking when they are in their mid-late teens, and even bright people may try smoking at that age - and then a number will of course become addicted. Addiction is not rational and has nothing whatsoever to do with intellect. There are even studies that show a correlation between higher IQ and experimentation with substances.

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#1555847 19-May-2016 22:32

The comparisons with cigarettes and alcohol are always interesting. The difference between a beer and a cigarette is that you could sit and drink a beer within 10 feet of me and it has no affect on me. However if I was to smoke a cigarette, it can be 'enjoyed' by people on the other side of the room.

I used to work in hospo when I was a student at the time the phased it out in pubs. I couldn't believe the difference in how I felt. I would arrive at work and my nose would instantly block whenever there was cigarette smoke, I've no idea why. We used to sell cigars too. Then the law changed, and it was a much more pleasant environment to work in. Took about 6 months to sell the last of the cigars and was awkward explaining to Americans who were delighted to find Cuban cigars, that, no, they couldn't smoke them in the bar where they'd bought them.

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#1555848 19-May-2016 22:34

Mspec:

I see on the news about e-cigs , I thought they were legal here in NZ.

They are legal. TVNZ made a very significant factual error in the piece that aired last night. The devices are 100% legal to sell and buy in NZ. It is not legal to sell nicotine containing e-liquid in NZ, however it is perfectly legal to import it for personal use (or import nicotine concentrate).

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#1555875 19-May-2016 23:44

One of the things about recent smoking bans... I never go to bars, clubs etc. Most restaurants I frequented didn't allow smoking inside. I don't go to casinos, certainly not often. When people were allowed to smoke inside, I was unaffected, but I see more people smoking in doorways than ever before, and on footpaths outside shops etc, which means walking down the street I am exposed to what I wasn't previously to the same degree.

Stan

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#1555881 20-May-2016 00:21

Fred99:

Geektastic:

Rikkitic:

When I breathe in air I breathe out carbon dioxide. Dangerous stuff, that. It can even kill you. Maybe breathing in the presence of others should be banned.

Someone already pointed out the effect of noxious fumes from vehicles. If you drive yours anywhere near me, I will inhale some of your very nasty particulate matter and my life will probably be shortened by so many nanoseconds. Let’s ban vehicles.

Wood heaters create terrible air pollution and don’t do a lot for our carbon footprint, either. Ban ‘em.

Do you like meat? Sorry, those cows crapping everywhere and the fertiliser dumps to grow their food are destroying the environment, never mind the methane they emit. Ban those too.

Ban it ban it ban it. That’ll solve everything. Just look how it has eliminated marijuana from this country!

I'd agree with you about the wood heaters. All a bit 19th century to be honest, unless you are talking about modern pellet burners.

Masterton has one of the worst air quality ratings in a recent survey and I can well believe it. On a still winter afternoon, a pall of woodsmoke hangs over the place like some Hammer Horror set!

Good lord. Wood burners are relatively carbon neutral. It's not rocket science to work that one out.

Burning dry wood, IIRC the quantity of particulates per kg wood burned on old burners, the old Kents and Yuncas etc, was something like 15-20g. I think the national standard for new burners is 1.5, and 1.0 in Chch and Nelson (Dunedin too?) I think the one I installed is about 0.7, there are some which are below 0.5. Simple version - up to 20 times less polluting than the log burners still in widespread use in places where they're either still allowed - or if not, then there's nobody checking.

If councils would nail people using open fires (many times worse than even the old log-burners), and introduce policies to replace old log-burners, and educate people to not burn garbage and wet wood, then that solves most of the problem. Chch back in the early '80s was disgustingly foul - not perfect now - but a massive improvement.

Another side to this is what you can't see might be worse than what you can. Nobody seems to care a rat's bum about stratified fuel injected cars (ie most new cars now) and the high levels of very small particulates emitted - for which there's growing evidence that gram for gram, they're orders of magnitude worse than sooty smoke, as rather than just clog up your lungs and make you cough up black phlegm, the particles are small enough to go directly into the bloodstream.

Im an x smoker and now I vape I have gone from 24mg nicotine juice to 3mg it's such a wonderful tool to get yourself off nicotine I couldn't have quit without it.

As for wood burners you are 100% correct, most wood fires are actually well below the 1.5g emissions because of some councils adopting stricter policies towards them. Not to mention ULEB burners that the NZ manufacturers have been engineering for the last few years, woodfires are still an excellent way to heat your house.

Check out this lower for low emissions

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