Charges filed against Noel Leeming for misrepresenting consumers’ rights

Forums › Off topic › Charges filed against Noel Leeming for misrepresenting consumers’ rights

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#2004308 28-Apr-2018 21:53

My suggestion would be if you have had bad customer service somewhere tell your relatives, friends, work colleagues, etc. Then make a point of picking up one of their advertising catalogues at the shop door each time you are at the mall. That way you have cost them at least a few cents! The catalogue can then be used for putting your cat feed bowl on.

I know I warned people about getting Dick Smith gift vouchers the Christmas season just before they went under.

mattwnz

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#2004310 28-Apr-2018 22:07

DaveDog:

This might be OT but a big help in the consumer rights minefield would be some sort of benchmark guide for consumers/retailers and manufacturers alike... For example: A washing machine under the provision of the CGA should last X years. A refrigerator should last Y years and so on...

That would spell out the expected lifespan and then everyone would be clear on what is expected and so on.

Consumer New Zealand did an article showing the number of years you should expect to get out of different appliances. Not sure if they have done something more recent. The problem is you can get $300 washing machines and $5000 washing machines, with similar features. You would expect a $5000 one to last longer, as you would expect it would be higher quality and more durable, but how long should each last?

dejadeadnz

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#2004338 29-Apr-2018 00:43

Dial111:

Well your suggestion would be purely based on assumptions now wouldn't it as I know what the CGA states thank you.

My comment is referring to people slandering manufacturers with only providing half the story and not explaining whether they attempted to contact the retailer or not, we don't know, but based on some comments it's just "X gave me the run around, mislead me on my rights etc" was it an offshore call centre? that probably deals with many countries at any given time? If so I wouldn't expect them to know what each countries laws are. At times it would be far easier dealing with the local retailer.

Who are you again? The God of New Zealand? Why should anyone have to provide the so called "full story" to you as to how they choose to exercise their consumer rights? It might be advisable to deal with the retailers first but if someone chooses not to or choose not to lengthen their post with a gigantic lot of background, it's not grounds for you to impugn their character. The only one here who's doing any slandering (hint: don't use big words that you don't understand -- in NZ the correct term for this is "defaming") of people is you.

quickymart

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#2004352 29-Apr-2018 07:10

Dial111:
mattwnz:

Dial111: To those knocking manufacturers for not recognising the CGA, did you try the retailer you bought these goods off first?

First and foremost that's who your contract is with, start there..

.

Also is some cases the manufacturer is the retailer, if you buy it directly from the manufacturer.

exactly. But we don't know that as it was never stated. If you're going to name and shame a company and suggest not dealing with them, fine but give me the facts as to why, and what lead up to that point so I can make my own mind up, if you can't even bother to do that then it's just slander.

I doubt the companies involved are personally going to come here to defend themselves, are they?

If I've had bad service from a company I will happily say so if anyone asks me what they're like.

dylanp

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#2004353 29-Apr-2018 07:12

A slightly mean hobby of mine when offered an extended warranty is asking what features and protections it offers over the cga, and what the commission on the warranty is.

Dunnersfella

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#2004399 29-Apr-2018 08:57

Legally they have to tell you what areas their extended warranty exceeds the CGA... it should be part of their pitch.

Some extended warranties guarantee a complete replacement if there's a fault - this means you won't have the product repaired (unless you want to), you will instead get a replacement or a brand new model of the product that is deemed to be the same level of what you originally purchased.

That's a feature that exceeds the CGA, but is it worth paying for?

That would be up to you.

The whole thing that people don't understand is that not all extended warranties are made equal... and some actually offer less protection (in some areas) than the CGA. Again, people shouldn't need to research the difference - the retailer must tell you.

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dejadeadnz

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#2004437 29-Apr-2018 10:30

To Dunnersfella’s point, there is also now a mandatory cooling off period for extended warranty insurance. If people are going to buy these, they should at least read the damn policies.

sbiddle

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#2004444 29-Apr-2018 10:49

I can't say I have any sympathy for Noel Leeming after my poor experiences there. I would never willingly buy anything there again.

I've also noticed as of late how incredibly expensive they are - while researching a few recent purchases for people it was interesting to see how they were so much more expensive even during their sale periods. I noticed looking at TV's on Anzac day for somebody that even with 20% off they were hundreds more than Harvey Norman.

amiga500

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#2004462 29-Apr-2018 11:23

dylanp: A slightly mean hobby of mine when offered an extended warranty is asking what features and protections it offers over the cga, and what the commission on the warranty is.

Way to go! Buying something even slightly expensive should be a pleasurable experience, an experience not spoiled with unpleasant & quite often aggressive up selling.

pillmonsta

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#2004470 29-Apr-2018 11:30

Dial111:
mattwnz:

Dial111: To those knocking manufacturers for not recognising the CGA, did you try the retailer you bought these goods off first?

First and foremost that's who your contract is with, start there..

.

Also is some cases the manufacturer is the retailer, if you buy it directly from the manufacturer.

exactly. But we don't know that as it was never stated. If you're going to name and shame a company and suggest not dealing with them, fine but give me the facts as to why, and what lead up to that point so I can make my own mind up, if you can't even bother to do that then it's just slander.

I can.

I just wrote a novel in reply to your q. explaining the differences then rambled onto other topics re: NL/HN tactics with a couple of examples, hit reply and of course was asked to login, losing everything in the process. So now I go make a coffee and come back as the screaming tantrum I threw hasn't quite calmed me down yet.:D

However a short version: Supplier (RTB) warranty is simply the CGA. Manufacturer (RMA) is the manufacturers warranty, over and above the CGA.

Both are mutually exclusive and both run concurrently not consecutively. RTB begins at date of supply, RMA - date of purchase.

That's why the extended warranties are a total have. Other than replacement these BS Extended Warranties don't offer consumers anything they aren't already covered for by the CGA, which is the crux of the Commerce Commissions enquiry.

brb

geek4me

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#2004479 29-Apr-2018 11:39

sbiddle:

I can't say I have any sympathy for Noel Leeming after my poor experiences there. I would never willingly buy anything there again.

I've also noticed as of late how incredibly expensive they are - while researching a few recent purchases for people it was interesting to see how they were so much more expensive even during their sale periods. I noticed looking at TV's on Anzac day for somebody that even with 20% off they were hundreds more than Harvey Norman.

While they are often more than other stores they have for me, so far, always matched a competitor's price and given Fly Buys when shown a competitor's better price online.

Oh no, not another end of the world prediction

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surfisup1000

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#2004483 29-Apr-2018 11:56

Dial111: To those knocking manufacturers for not recognising the CGA, did you try the retailer you bought these goods off first?

First and foremost that's who your contract is with, start there..

Bagging the manufacturer on a public forum without even giving the full story is just slander in my eyes.

Learn the law, big guy. You make assumptions , jump to incorrect conclusions and throw baseless accusations.

Here are a couple of facts... I bought the lenovo from the NZ online website...they have no local stores or even head office that can be easily contacted. I have no choice but to go through their call center.

With F&P, i went through Noel Leeming, they were refusing to honour the cga and directed me to F&P. F&P call center staff had no idea about the CGA, they said sorry your fridge is out of warranty there is nothing we can do. So , I took noel leeming to disputes, NL called me pre-hearing and agreed to pay for my repairs.

Incidentally, I do expect offshore call centers to understand New Zealand consumer law. Companies cannot ignore their CGA responsibilities by exporting their call centers.

dejadeadnz

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#2004488 29-Apr-2018 12:01

I just love how facts got in the way of some other poster's big rant about people slandering retailers. And surisup1000 is right: if a company chooses to physically sell goods in NZ, it's up to them to abide by our law.

This does seem like a novel concept to one poster in this thread, however.

plod

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#2004492 29-Apr-2018 12:18

Dunnersfella:
Legally they have to tell you what areas their extended warranty exceeds the CGA... it should be part of their pitch.

Some extended warranties guarantee a complete replacement if there's a fault - this means you won't have the product repaired (unless you want to), you will instead get a replacement or a brand new model of the product that is deemed to be the same level of what you originally purchased.

That's a feature that exceeds the CGA, but is it worth paying for?

That would be up to you.

The whole thing that people don't understand is that not all extended warranties are made equal... and some actually offer less protection (in some areas) than the CGA. Again, people shouldn't need to research the difference - the retailer must tell you.

i was in PBtech on Anzac Day afternoon purchasing a new laptop for my mother. On the counter there was a sign with the differences between the CGA and a pbtech warranty. Apart from the pbtech warranty offering discount for non warranty repairs and a loaner device. It more or less read if you buy the warranty we will make it easy on you and not make you jump through hoops. Now I have never made a claim there so I might be wrong.

pillmonsta

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#2004599 29-Apr-2018 16:22

surfisup1000:

Dial111: To those knocking manufacturers for not recognising the CGA, did you try the retailer you bought these goods off first?

First and foremost that's who your contract is with, start there..

Bagging the manufacturer on a public forum without even giving the full story is just slander in my eyes.

Learn the law, big guy. You make assumptions , jump to incorrect conclusions and throw baseless accusations.

Here are a couple of facts... I bought the lenovo from the NZ online website...they have no local stores or even head office that can be easily contacted. I have no choice but to go through their call center.

With F&P, i went through Noel Leeming, they were refusing to honour the cga and directed me to F&P. F&P call center staff had no idea about the CGA, they said sorry your fridge is out of warranty there is nothing we can do. So , I took noel leeming to disputes, NL called me pre-hearing and agreed to pay for my repairs.

Incidentally, I do expect offshore call centers to understand New Zealand consumer law. Companies cannot ignore their CGA responsibilities by exporting their call centers.

I notice many facts posts recently are based on assumptions, including yours. No wonder so many consumers got shafted by NL.

Whether a a centre is onshore or offshore has nothing to do with CGA. Lenovo's helpdesk could be based on Mars, you'd still be covered..

Call ASUS Auckland 09-xxxxxx and it goes through to Singapore. Call Spark Residential you talk to a CSR in the Philippines

Lenovo, ASUS, HP, Intel, AMD etc all have agents in NZ, and the agent is who you deal with when making an RMA claim.

Suppliers/agents are bound by the CGA for 6mths, tho RTB can be up to one year. That's "reasonable time period".

After that you're covered by the manufacturer & subsequent RMA's are made through the local agent, which in F&P's case is Noel Leeming.

F&P paid for your repairs, not NL. The fact NL are F&P's agents is mere coincidence. NL were also well within their rights to refuse a CGA claim after 1yr. Suppliers cannot be held indefinitely.

Back to Lenovo, if you were to open an RMA ticket the helpesk would direct you to the nearest Lenovo repair centre in NZ.

One agent I know is Cyclone Computers in Auckland, well afaik they are. It's been 12yrs since I left Cyclone but I you could prob call them instead of Lenovo.

A tip for joe public.... 99% of the time it's a lot less hassle to cut out the middleman and go straight to the manufacturer when making claims, in some cases they will refer you back to the agent, (ASUS RMA is PITA). But calling the manufacturer first, (they all have freephone numbers) can often save a lot frustration easy to find.

Fwiw I have little story to share involving Noel Leeming:

A 5-10 SMB owner with 6 NL leased machines is told to bring two broken units in for warranty/repair work. (NL don't repair anything, least of all OEM units under warranty). So he did - a 60km drive btw.

Two weeks go by & no word so owner calls NL to get an ETA on when the units would be ready. Unsurprisingly, both machines were still sitting out the back of NL's waiting to be shipped to Whangerai (repair centre)

I knew what was wrong the HDD was borked, a 2hr job. But being leased the client (yes -it happened to a client) was obliged to send it in.

Btw for small SMB's - lease machines are bad news, particularly AIO units. Major downtime if anything goes wrong - as illustrated here.

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