Big Bang Theory (no, not the TV series)

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#3020483 12-Jan-2023 15:21

MikeB4:

Wouldn't be the Enterprise only the Borg do that sort of crap,😀

Maybe not the Enterprise... but would the Federation?

gzt

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#3020486 12-Jan-2023 15:23

Back to basics. Before the expansion. There was no space. There was no time. There was no outside. It's a difficult concept to grasp.

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#3020488 12-Jan-2023 15:25

Back to basics and skipping the expansion. The universe exists. It is still expanding. It has time and space. Even now, there is no outside.

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#3020489 12-Jan-2023 15:26

gzt: Back to basics. Before the expansion. There was no space. There was no time. There was no outside. It's a difficult concept to grasp. Back to basics and skipping the expansion. The universe exists. It is still expanding. It has time and space. Even now, there is no outside.

i propose we don't have a clue. science too primitive.

nobody has been anywhere near our nearest star after the sun. anything we think we know is just best guess science.

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#3020490 12-Jan-2023 15:29

Batman: i propose we don't have a clue. science too primitive.

There are many many clues.

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#3020494 12-Jan-2023 15:39

gzt:
Batman: i propose we don't have a clue. science too primitive.

There are many many clues.

Science is a methodology.

We're the bit that is too primitive. We haven't figured out how to apply that methodology correctly in order to answer these questions.

Yet.

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#3020500 12-Jan-2023 15:50

tdgeek:

andrew75:

And if time began at the big bang, the concept of what was 'before' the big bang is not valid.

That would mean nothing existed. No space, and no time. But the singularity existed? What happened 2 seconds before? What existed 2 feet away prior to the Big Bang?

When we say no time or space existed, it's a claim to what didn't exist, not to what existed. We only have hypothesises as to what did exist, and what "existence" even means outside of space and time.

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#3020577 12-Jan-2023 19:02

Batman:

It's only a contradiction because our science is so primitive when it comes to these sort of things, ie they have no idea what's going on

Hands up who's been within 1600 light years from a black hole?

the data you're studying is 1600 years old. it might have been blown up by the Enterprise 1599 years ago for all you know.

Its not primitive at all

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#3020579 12-Jan-2023 19:05

gzt: Back to basics. Before the expansion. There was no space. There was no time. There was no outside. It's a difficult concept to grasp.

I get that, BUT are you SURE there was no space, time, outside? Thats the quandary. We do not know. It could be once in a universe event, or just another boring cycle

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#3020581 12-Jan-2023 19:08

gzt: Back to basics and skipping the expansion. The universe exists. It is still expanding. It has time and space. Even now, there is no outside.

Proof? (not being anti)

We have an observable Universe, circa 93 million lightyears diameter. We dont know whats beyond that. It could be two feet it could be infinite. We dont know

I feel the key in this thread is that if you say something, its either a fact or its a guess/estimate/guide

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#3020583 12-Jan-2023 19:12

Batman: Hands up who's been within 1600 light years from a black hole?

Me. The black hole Gaia BH1 is 1566 light years from earth. Science wins !

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#3020584 12-Jan-2023 19:12

Batman:

gzt: Back to basics. Before the expansion. There was no space. There was no time. There was no outside. It's a difficult concept to grasp. Back to basics and skipping the expansion. The universe exists. It is still expanding. It has time and space. Even now, there is no outside.

i propose we don't have a clue. science too primitive.

nobody has been anywhere near our nearest star after the sun. anything we think we know is just best guess science.

We have optical telescopes, see as far as you can see. We have radio telescopes, see past the dust. Detect an exo planet, only because of the minuscule difference in the stars luminosity over a regular period (planet orbit). Radio allows you to detect what elements are there. There are a myriad of means to detect distance, temp and elements. Its NOT primitive, its basic science.

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#3020585 12-Jan-2023 19:16

Kookoo:

When we say no time or space existed, it's a claim to what didn't exist, not to what existed. We only have hypothesises as to what did exist, and what "existence" even means outside of space and time.

Sorry, makes no sense. We do not know. So we cannot say nothing existed or say that something existed. We can look at the laws of physics. Maybe there are laws we dont know that exist. Or, that we have seen that all laws work, so why would they not work at the Big Bang, or before?

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#3020638 12-Jan-2023 19:46

tdgeek:
Kookoo:

When we say no time or space existed, it's a claim to what didn't exist, not to what existed. We only have hypothesises as to what did exist, and what "existence" even means outside of space and time.

Sorry, makes no sense. We do not know. So we cannot say nothing existed or say that something existed. We can look at the laws of physics. Maybe there are laws we dont know that exist. Or, that we have seen that all laws work, so why would they not work at the Big Bang, or before?

Yes we do know, but we also know what we don't know. When you say "we don't know" you're really saying "I don't know, and I can't be bothered to learn". This is obvious because you're repeatedly told that the theory doesn't say "nothing existed" and yet you keep repeating it as a strawman argument.

This betrays your inability or unwillingness to learn. The thing is - science doesn't work from authority, so while you can accept the scientific consensus you can also challenge it by applying scientific method. Which is something you aren't doing - simply denying scientific knowledge isn't it.

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#3020641 12-Jan-2023 19:58

Kookoo: Yes we do know, but we also know what we don't know. When you say "we don't know" you're really saying "I don't know, and I can't be bothered to learn". This is obvious because you're repeatedly told that the theory doesn't say "nothing existed" and yet you keep repeating it as a strawman argument. This betrays your inability or unwillingness to learn. The thing is - science doesn't work from authority, so while you can accept the scientific consensus you can also challenge it by applying scientific method. Which is something you aren't doing - simply denying scientific knowledge isn't it.

Well ok, so "it's a claim to what didn't exist" What didnt exist?

I cant be bothered to learn?

because you're repeatedly told that the theory doesn't say "nothing existed"

it as a strawman argument.

This betrays your inability or unwillingness to learn.

simply denying scientific knowledge isn't it.

Id be happy if you extrapolate on that, given that the topic (The Big Bang Theory (how and why)) cannot be validated. The growth from that can, thats not the argument.

But thanks for your contribution, can you advise what existed before the BBT, and how it existed, and why it occurred 13.75 B years ago? How many BBT has there been? 1? Or many?

What you appear to be contributing is your belief, so everyone else is wrong. The points I raised are not known

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