Child support rant.

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#1253903 9-Mar-2015 11:51

Athlonite:
why would you be paying a school $25 a week and clothing and shoes another $25 a week that's ridiculous what do you buy crap cloths/shoes that fall apart in a day and $15 dollars for pocket money I hope your making them work for it ie: dishes lawns tidy their room etc etc and each job not done see's an amount for that job deducted

Feel free to share your own figures.

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sidefx

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#1253908 9-Mar-2015 12:00

kiwitrc:
I think whats being missed in this is that rounding your figures up to an even $300 for example means that the OP is paying for ALL the cost of raising the kid. Why doesnt Mum ( or Dad in rare cases) not pay half of the $300?.

If you take the sharing argument of 5:2 it makes it even worse, try renting that extra room for the weekend only or asking Mum to send young Nigel along with 2 days worth of food/power/internet/phone. I would say its probably more like 12:2 ratio but the argument remains.

I love my kids but raising them takes effort and work. Let's say $300 total is reasonable and the split is 5:2. If you split it straight 5:2 that means $215 \ $75.

But one parent is caring for the child a significant number of hours extra per week (72 raw hours, obviously with school\sleep\etc it's not really this many but it's still significant!) For which they receive $85... Yup, it's still sounding reasonable to me. I'm not saying any parent expects to get paid to look after their kids, but the reality is it still takes a lot of time and effort.

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frankv

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#1253917 9-Mar-2015 12:07

KiwiNZ: one thing not being taken into account here is if the noncustodial parent suffers a change in financial circumstance and or hardship they can apply for a reduction in Child support down to as low as the minimum $10 per week...

In your dreams, buddy! First time I was turned down because I was estimating my travel costs associated with seeing my kids (my wife had moved, with them, from Wellington to New Plymouth). The following year I was turned down because I couldn't claim retrospectively. Subsequently, estimates were allowed (without any notification to anyone). This time I was turned down because it was my choice not to live in New Plymouth. Reviews are a joke.

The purpose of Child Support is to ensure the Govt doesn't have to support a child. The view taken by the IRD is that if the law allows them to take "up to X dollars", then X dollars is precisely the right amount to take.
Reviews are run by IRD. QED.

The other thing that really grates about Child Support is the complete lack of accountability. I think that it's reasonable that if the Govt forcibly takes my money, I should get a say in how it's spent. Hell, I would have settled for at least be told what it's being spent on. A general "It's being spent on the kids" is not good enough.

Athlonite

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#1253919 9-Mar-2015 12:10

sidefx:
Athlonite:
why would you be paying a school $25 a week and clothing and shoes another $25 a week that's ridiculous what do you buy crap cloths/shoes that fall apart in a day and $15 dollars for pocket money I hope your making them work for it ie: dishes lawns tidy their room etc etc and each job not done see's an amount for that job deducted

Feel free to share your own figures.

Do you have a kid do they really cost you $300 a week if so it's time to start using the word NO a bit more often I make my 15 year old work for his money dishes/vacuuming/tidy his room wash his socks because I refuse to touch them (they smell like a dead animal left in the sun to long)

MikeB4

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#1253922 9-Mar-2015 12:12

frankv:
KiwiNZ: one thing not being taken into account here is if the noncustodial parent suffers a change in financial circumstance and or hardship they can apply for a reduction in Child support down to as low as the minimum $10 per week...

In your dreams, buddy! First time I was turned down because I was estimating my travel costs associated with seeing my kids (my wife had moved, with them, from Wellington to New Plymouth). The following year I was turned down because I couldn't claim retrospectively. Subsequently, estimates were allowed (without any notification to anyone). This time I was turned down because it was my choice not to live in New Plymouth. Reviews are a joke.

The purpose of Child Support is to ensure the Govt doesn't have to support a child. The view taken by the IRD is that if the law allows them to take "up to X dollars", then X dollars is precisely the right amount to take.
Reviews are run by IRD. QED.

The other thing that really grates about Child Support is the complete lack of accountability. I think that it's reasonable that if the Govt forcibly takes my money, I should get a say in how it's spent. Hell, I would have settled for at least be told what it's being spent on. A general "It's being spent on the kids" is not good enough.

Not dreams, decades of experience.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#1253923 9-Mar-2015 12:12

Athlonite:
sidefx:
Athlonite:
why would you be paying a school $25 a week and clothing and shoes another $25 a week that's ridiculous what do you buy crap cloths/shoes that fall apart in a day and $15 dollars for pocket money I hope your making them work for it ie: dishes lawns tidy their room etc etc and each job not done see's an amount for that job deducted

Feel free to share your own figures.

Do you have a kid do they really cost you $300 a week if so it's time to start using the word NO a bit more often I make my 15 year old work for his money dishes/vacuuming/tidy his room wash his socks because I refuse to touch them (they smell like a dead animal left in the sun to long)

I don't disagree with you, but I think we should try hard to leave advice on others parenting choices to one side to save the conversation heading into the abyss.

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sidefx

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#1253926 9-Mar-2015 12:20

Athlonite:
Do you have a kid do they really cost you $300 a week if so it's time to start using the word NO a bit more often I make my 15 year old work for his money dishes/vacuuming/tidy his room wash his socks because I refuse to touch them (they smell like a dead animal left in the sun to long)

Yes, I have 3. I find it's a bit harder getting 8 or 6 year old to do their laundry, but yes they do have chores. Thanks for the advice though.

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
- Richard Feynman

MikeB4

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#1253927 9-Mar-2015 12:22

Athlonite:
sidefx:
Athlonite:
why would you be paying a school $25 a week and clothing and shoes another $25 a week that's ridiculous what do you buy crap cloths/shoes that fall apart in a day and $15 dollars for pocket money I hope your making them work for it ie: dishes lawns tidy their room etc etc and each job not done see's an amount for that job deducted

Feel free to share your own figures.

Do you have a kid do they really cost you $300 a week if so it's time to start using the word NO a bit more often I make my 15 year old work for his money dishes/vacuuming/tidy his room wash his socks because I refuse to touch them (they smell like a dead animal left in the sun to long)

Take into account ALL the costs, food, clothing, medical, education, entertainment, housing, heating, electrical, phone, transport childcare if needed....

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Athlonite

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#1253928 9-Mar-2015 12:25

so from what your saying is it costs you around $900 (300 per week per child) a week to feed cloth school etc etc your 3 kids

tdgeek

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#1253933 9-Mar-2015 12:31

Athlonite: so from what your saying is it costs you around $900 (300 per week per child) a week to feed cloth school etc etc your 3 kids

$1800, as the OP's $300 is his half share. Others mention a 5:2 spread to take into account the time the mum spends on childcare.

What I am seeing, is that too many costs are taken into account too literally. These ciosts seem to outweigh wages, to be far nore than what a solo mum would get for herself AND the kids.

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#1253934 9-Mar-2015 12:33

Athlonite: so from what your saying is it costs you around $900 (300 per week per child) a week to feed cloth school etc etc your 3 kids

Obviously not. 2 of them share a room and handing down clothes, shared entertainment, etc, etc,etc mean it's less. Not to mention my calculations didn't come to $300 above, but I've already explained all this above.

And this is reflected in how child support payments work anyway, since paying child support for 2 (or 3) children doesn't come anywhere near to doubling or tripling the amount. So I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make.

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- Richard Feynman

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Athlonite

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#1253935 9-Mar-2015 12:35

KiwiNZ:
Athlonite:
sidefx:
Athlonite:
why would you be paying a school $25 a week and clothing and shoes another $25 a week that's ridiculous what do you buy crap cloths/shoes that fall apart in a day and $15 dollars for pocket money I hope your making them work for it ie: dishes lawns tidy their room etc etc and each job not done see's an amount for that job deducted

Feel free to share your own figures.

Do you have a kid do they really cost you $300 a week if so it's time to start using the word NO a bit more often I make my 15 year old work for his money dishes/vacuuming/tidy his room wash his socks because I refuse to touch them (they smell like a dead animal left in the sun to long)

Take into account ALL the costs, food, clothing, medical, education, entertainment, housing, heating, electrical, phone, transport childcare if needed....

unless you have sickly kids medical is not a weekly expenditure as for entertainment he spends 99% of his spare time at a skate bowl on his scooter otherwise movies and the like are also a non weekly expenditure although I'm happy to pay for it when he does ask which is rarely

sidefx

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#1253937 9-Mar-2015 12:38

Athlonite:
unless you have sickly kids medical is not a weekly expenditure as for entertainment he spends 99% of his spare time at a skate bowl on his scooter otherwise movies and the like are also a non weekly expenditure although I'm happy to pay for it when he does ask which is rarely

There are many things that are not "weekly" expenditures, but they still come up from time to time so have to be accounted for.

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
- Richard Feynman

Paul1977

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#1253939 9-Mar-2015 12:43

sidefx:
Athlonite:
unless you have sickly kids medical is not a weekly expenditure as for entertainment he spends 99% of his spare time at a skate bowl on his scooter otherwise movies and the like are also a non weekly expenditure although I'm happy to pay for it when he does ask which is rarely

There are many things that are not "weekly" expenditures, but they still come up from time to time so have to be accounted for.

I was just about to say this. The weekly amount needs to be calculated from ALL expenses throughout the year and divided by 52 to give a true weekly expense.

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#1253942 9-Mar-2015 12:48

Athlonite: unless you have sickly kids medical is not a weekly expenditure

Using that argument, a majority of costs are not technically 'weekly' expenditure - indeed rent is probably the only big one that may be (though I'm guessing most pay rent fortnightly?). A mortgage may be paid fortnightly, but everyone would agree it's easy to calculate the average weekly cost of that mortgage!

Similiarly, any other cost paid out over say a year - even if irregular both in frequency and amount like clothing or medical costs - can be averaged out to a weekly amount, as anyone running a household budget knows. So, yes, there is a simple way to determine a 'weekly' cost covering all expenses, though of course there will need to be assumptions made about non-fixed costs.

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