NZ Citizenship - time taken for approval

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69 posts

Master Geek

#2747566 21-Jul-2021 11:22

tchart:

I finally got some contact...

Got asked to submit a new photo - said it was to low quality but I suspect they probably just wanted a new one given the requirements state "Less than 6 months old" and my application was submitted 9 months ago.

That's great news. What was the timescale given in your email when you submitted it? Submitted mine in early January this year and it said 5-10 months. Just wonder if they are tending to achieve that.

Kyanar

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#2747604 21-Jul-2021 12:26

cshwone:

I was of the understanding that you could apply for citizenship after 5years from your residency visa. During those 5 years that's when the 240 in each year kicked in but that you could only apply after those 5 years. So in the OP's case that would be 20 Dec 2021.

Certainly that's the way a lot of government departments look at it for employment contracts eventually requiring citizenship to be granted as a condition of further employment.

I thought the same, until reading the Citizenship Act itself. Nowhere is there a requirement to have been a resident for five years. The requirements are, in order:

entitled to be in New Zealand indefinitely at time of application
present for 1,350 days in the preceding five years
1. of which, present at least 240 days of each of the preceding five years
2. all of which, must have been entitled to be in New Zealand indefinitely
of good character
of sufficient understanding of rights, privileges, and obligations
of sufficient English language knowledge
intending to continue to reside within New Zealand
1. or work overseas for the New Zealand Government, or a New Zealand entity, or for an intergovernmental organisation of which New Zealand is a member, such as the United Nations

With that in mind, 20 December 2021 would not be correct. The earliest one could apply for citizenship is 1700 days after obtaining residency, not five years (which is 1825 days, give or take leap years). One would be entitled to apply as soon as they reach 240 days in the fourth year.

cshwone:

And further to my post above. On the previously linked government website at https://www.govt.nz/browse/passports-citizenship-and-identity/nz-citizenship/requirements-for-nz-citizenship/presence-requirements/

The very first requirement is that you have been here 5 years

That very first requirement on that page is not backed by legislation, therefore it has no effect.

Hatch

797 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2747605 21-Jul-2021 12:34

Kyanar:

I thought the same, until reading the Citizenship Act itself. Nowhere is there a requirement to have been a resident for five years. The requirements are, in order:

You left one requirement out, Quoting the Citizenship Act:

8 Citizenship by grant
(1) The Minister may authorise the grant of New Zealand citizenship to any person, including a person who may be a New Zealand citizen by descent, who—
(a) has attained the age of 16 years; and
(b) is of full capacity; and
(c) applies for citizenship in the prescribed manner; and
(d) satisfies the Minister that he or she meets each of the requirements specified in subsection (2).
(2) The requirements referred to in subsection (1)(d) are as follows:
(a) that the applicant is entitled in terms of the Immigration Act 2009 to be in New Zealand indefinitely:

Etc etc

That's the requirement to be a NZ resident.

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1977/0061/latest/whole.html#DLM443855

Edit; Didn't leave any requirements out, but maybe read past it?

Mrsd411

69 posts

Master Geek

#2747608 21-Jul-2021 12:48

Mrsd411:

tchart:

I finally got some contact...

Got asked to submit a new photo - said it was to low quality but I suspect they probably just wanted a new one given the requirements state "Less than 6 months old" and my application was submitted 9 months ago.

That's great news. What was the timescale given in your email when you submitted it? Submitted mine in early January this year and it said 5-10 months. Just wonder if they are tending to achieve that.

cshwone

1070 posts

Uber Geek

#2747620 21-Jul-2021 13:12

Kyanar:

cshwone:

I was of the understanding that you could apply for citizenship after 5years from your residency visa. During those 5 years that's when the 240 in each year kicked in but that you could only apply after those 5 years. So in the OP's case that would be 20 Dec 2021.

Certainly that's the way a lot of government departments look at it for employment contracts eventually requiring citizenship to be granted as a condition of further employment.

I thought the same, until reading the Citizenship Act itself. Nowhere is there a requirement to have been a resident for five years. The requirements are, in order:

entitled to be in New Zealand indefinitely at time of application
present for 1,350 days in the preceding five years

of which, present at least 240 days of each of the preceding five years
all of which, must have been entitled to be in New Zealand indefinitely

of good character
of sufficient understanding of rights, privileges, and obligations
of sufficient English language knowledge
intending to continue to reside within New Zealand

or work overseas for the New Zealand Government, or a New Zealand entity, or for an intergovernmental organisation of which New Zealand is a member, such as the United Nations

With that in mind, 20 December 2021 would not be correct. The earliest one could apply for citizenship is 1700 days after obtaining residency, not five years (which is 1825 days, give or take leap years). One would be entitled to apply as soon as they reach 240 days in the fourth year.

That very first requirement on that page is not backed by legislation, therefore it has no effect.

The bits I highlighted above cover that in that for the preceding 5 years you must have been entitled to be in NZ indefinitely, not for the preceding 4 years and 240 days etc

Kyanar

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#2747629 21-Jul-2021 13:50

Hatch:

You left one requirement out, Quoting the Citizenship Act:

8 Citizenship by grant
(1) The Minister may authorise the grant of New Zealand citizenship to any person, including a person who may be a New Zealand citizen by descent, who—
(a) has attained the age of 16 years; and
(b) is of full capacity; and
(c) applies for citizenship in the prescribed manner; and
(d) satisfies the Minister that he or she meets each of the requirements specified in subsection (2).
(2) The requirements referred to in subsection (1)(d) are as follows:
(a) that the applicant is entitled in terms of the Immigration Act 2009 to be in New Zealand indefinitely:

No, I left no requirement out. It says that the applicant must be entitled to be in New Zealand indefinitely, which is a point-in-time requirement. No time period is specified for 8(2)(a) - the first mention of time periods is in 8(2)(b) - the specified time periods apply only to that subpara, they don't just jump out and latch onto every other subpara in the paragraph/section.

cshwone:

The bits I highlighted above cover that in that for the preceding 5 years you must have been entitled to be in NZ indefinitely, not for the preceding 4 years and 240 days etc

No they don't, you highlighted wrong. I meant what I said - the requirement to be entitled to reside in New Zealand permanently only extends back 1350 days with the requirement for the past five years to have at least 240 days each as a permanent resident, which totals 1700 days. Like I said though, it just explicitly excludes any time spent in the country on a visitor visa or other temporary residence class visa. No reading of the actual wording could imply that there is actually an 1825 day (five years, give or take a few days) requirement. If that was parliament's intention, the Act itself is incorrectly worded. An applicant who was rejected for applying at the 1700 day mark on the basis of not meeting the residency requirement would easily defeat the Government in an administrative challenge.

cshwone

1070 posts

Uber Geek

#2747631 21-Jul-2021 14:00

Lets try it another way then, my reading of it is that:

From the time you become entitled to reside in NZ through a visa you can apply for citizenship after 5 years, providing that you have
- a minimum of 240 days in each of those 5 years in the country, and
- a minimum of 1350 days total in the preceding 5 years.

It's the phrase preceding 5 years that is the catch all here and that is certainly how it was explained to me by DIA in that I couldn't apply for citizenship until 5 years had elapsed.

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Kyanar

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#2747668 21-Jul-2021 15:03

cshwone:

Lets try it another way then, my reading of it is that:

From the time you become entitled to reside in NZ through a visa you can apply for citizenship after 5 years, providing that you have

a minimum of 240 days in each of those 5 years in the country, and
a minimum of 1350 days total in the preceding 5 years.
It's the phrase preceding 5 years that is the catch all here and that is certainly how it was explained to me by DIA in that I couldn't apply for citizenship until 5 years had elapsed.

Except that the references to the preceding five years are only mentioned in reference to

a requirement for the preceding five years to include 1350 days total resident; and
a requirement for each of the preceding five years to include 240 days each year resident;

with the caveat that time on a temporary visa is not included. Nowhere does the Citizenship Act 1977 actually say that you must hold a permanent residence visa for five years. Like I said, if that is the intention then there has been a drastic oversight in the drafting of the Act, since it does not require it. DIA is, surprisingly, quite wrong on that supposed "requirement".

cshwone

1070 posts

Uber Geek

#2747693 21-Jul-2021 15:25

So it would be interesting to know if anyone here has actually applied under five years and been successful

Hatch

797 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2747695 21-Jul-2021 15:29

cshwone:

Lets try it another way then, my reading of it is that:

From the time you become entitled to reside in NZ through a visa you can apply for citizenship after 5 years, providing that you have

a minimum of 240 days in each of those 5 years in the country, and
a minimum of 1350 days total in the preceding 5 years.
It's the phrase preceding 5 years that is the catch all here and that is certainly how it was explained to me by DIA in that I couldn't apply for citizenship until 5 years had elapsed.

This is correct in my opinion and pretty common sense and easy to understand. In theory I think you could apply for citizenship when you reach the 240th day in the 5th year assuming you have reached 1350 days or more at that time, even if the 5th year hasn't yet ended.

The Citizenship Act does make it very clear what the requirements are in section 8(2):

The requirements referred to in subsection (1)(d) are as follows:
(a) that the applicant is entitled in terms of the Immigration Act 2009 to be in New Zealand indefinitely:
(b) that the applicant was present in New Zealand—
(i) for a minimum of 1 350 days during the 5 years immediately preceding the date of the application; and
(ii) for at least 240 days in each of those 5 years,— being days during which the applicant was entitled in terms of the Immigration Act 2009 to be in New Zealand indefinitely:

My analysis:

1) At the time you apply you must be a resident or permanent resident i.e. permitted to remain in NZ indefinitely as defined by the Immigration Act. section 8(2)(a)

b) You meet the presence in NZ requirements, i.e. firstly 1350 days in the 5 years prior to making an application section 8(2)(b)(i)

c) In each of the individual years over the 5 year period, each year you must have been present in NZ for at least 240 days per year. section 8(2)(b)(ii)

D) and for that 5 year period, you again must've been a resident or permanent resident i.e. permitted to remain in NZ indefinitely as defined by the Immigration Act. section 8(2)(b)(ii)

Hatch

797 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2747696 21-Jul-2021 15:30

cshwone:

So it would be interesting to know if anyone here has actually applied under five years and been successful

I'll ask someone and get back to you.

Hatch

797 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2748025 22-Jul-2021 10:18

cshwone:

So it would be interesting to know if anyone here has actually applied under five years and been successful

I asked someone and I'm wrong, you can't apply prior to 5 years.

As you've stated, an application can only be made after 5 years as a resident have elapsed.

(b)

that the applicant was present in New Zealand—

(i)

for a minimum of 1 350 days during the 5 years immediately preceding the date of the application;

Divhon88

99 posts

Master Geek

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#2748296 22-Jul-2021 15:50

There are other forum (Filipino and ENZ) & FB page that consistently says the same thing, around 4 years and 8 months they were able to apply and got their certificates.

@floydbloke you've read my post right. My reason for getting NZ Citizenship is to secure the basic needs of my kids which is next to impossible now with this housing crisis that we have comparable to our income, without burying ourselves in a mountain of a debt.

I also intend to retire in NZ at least at this stage.

@Kyanar Thank you for your input and thorough analysis of legislation, I highly appreciate it.

I care less of any spirit we have our own different ones we believe in anyways. As long as I'm not doing anything illegal I can sleep well at night. Some Aussie may despise those people who migrate to NZ then AU but surely that's not all of them, if the majority did then they should do an AUxit. They know they are all products of migrants too.

I don't need to go to AU to experience being a 2nd class resident I just go to my local Pak n Save and CBD, it would be a bad day if I don't see any one taking a shot for me not being white and having my eyes on the chinky side.

If ever we reach AU and decided we want to live there for good, we are skilled migrants in NZ surely they would need a health and social worker.

Kyanar

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#2748321 22-Jul-2021 16:36

Divhon88:

@Kyanar Thank you for your input and thorough analysis of legislation, I highly appreciate it.

I care less of any spirit we have our own different ones we believe in anyways. As long as I'm not doing anything illegal I can sleep well at night

Technically you are doing something illegal. One of the requirements - that is actually written into the legislation - is that you must intend to reside in New Zealand. If you do not, you are making a false statement on your citizenship application, which is a serious offence carrying some hefty penalties.

Divhon88

99 posts

Master Geek

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#2748356 22-Jul-2021 18:03

"Must intend to reside in NZ" sounds like a very generic statement which is very subjective to each own interpretation. Couldn't see anything in legislation of specific time frame of the intention.

Surely NZ has more pressing problem to solve than the big chunk of 500,000 kiwis in AU who left when their Citizenship was granted.

I doubt our jail system can afford an extra inmate @ $100K a year and our welfare system to the financial hardship that my family would endure if they throw the book at me.

I also doubt that they can take it back and leave me stateless once granted as I have no plans to re-acquire my current citizenship once I recite the oath.

Anyway back to topic, I wonder whats the hold up with the delay in processing. No one lost their job in DIA, we don't have any lock down, character check shouldn't be that long even the countries involved have covid.

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