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Geektastic

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#1162869 27-Oct-2014 11:34

mattwnz:
Geektastic:
mattwnz:
joker97:
old3eyes: One of the main reasons house pricing is so high in Auckland is that the Realtors play on the greed of the seller telling them that they can get way more by going to auction than selling the traditional way with a fixed price and of course inflating their commission. You even see the agencies advertizing on TV that they can get x% more that other agencies.. companies..

the ONLY reason for rising prices is demand > supply.

10 houses in Epsom for sale, 100,000 people want it.

the ONLY way to drop the price is: reduce demand - either you make it illegal to buy houses, or you make people NOT want to buy houses; OR increase supply: which is not possible in microlocalities. there are only so many houses in Epsom.

but if every month you have 10 people with 10 million bucks immigrating into AKL, well ...

True, but there is nothing being done at all to fix this problem. No GST on new builds may help, but isn't enough, as their are monopolies and duopolies in the building products sectors. We pay up to triple for drywall than they do in the US for the same product. Some retailers do now import some of it, and it is slightly cheaper.

It is also overseas investors buying houses, without even coming to NZ to see it. When I was at school, some of the students families puchased quite a few houses. So they don't just stop at one house either. I would like to see only NZers be allowed to buy houses, they do restrict them overseas. I would like to see overseas buyers only allowed to buy houses if they build them eg new builds. That should increase new builds.

Where do you think that they restrict them?

You can buy a house in the USA or the UK, for example. And anyone in the EU can buy in any other EU state.

That is two very big markets.

I know you cannot in some places like Vietnam - but I do not really think I want NZ compared to Vietnam.

The question you need to answer is not how can I stop foreign nationals buying it is "why are they richer than me?".

If you legally restrict my property rights, I will expect compensation if it results in my asset losing value.

Well I believe they restrict them in some Australian states for a start. http://www.exfin.com/australian-property-firb . I believe that is on an already established property, and not on building a new one. I wouldn't be againest this sort of law change. Also I don't believe you can buy property in China. You maybe able to buy in the USA, but they have pretty big restrictions on people living there.

I would doubt any government would pay any compo, as when the government changes rules, they are done to fix a problem and to benefit the majority of NZers. It would be almost impossible to prove what amount you may have lost anyway, by not selling to an overseas investor. I didn't get any compo when they changed my lifetime drivers license to 10 years, and now have to pay to renew it every 10 years, when I had previously paid for it up until about 2050.

I don't really think you can compare wiping tens of thousands - indeed, millions on some property - of dollars of value of something owned by just about 50% of New Zealanders to cutting the length of time your driving licence lasts.

The restrictions in places like the USA restrict whether you can actually become permanently resident there not whether you can buy a house and use it when you visit as a tourist or rent it to a local. Not many comparable economies actually ban all forms of foreign ownership.

It's also hard to do. If you ban foreign individuals from owning a house, they will merely form a company domiciled in NZ and use that. Or form a trust. Or form a company domiciled overseas. If you make restrictions too complex or too harsh you will eventually damage business - what happens if a US company wants to own property here for business purposes? - and/or increase compliance and monitoring costs.

I do not personally want NZ to be perceived as some sort of parochial backwater which lives in a protectionist bubble circa 1970. As I said, the actual question is why are people poor here not why do overseas people buy houses.

It's perfectly possible to earn a lot here but so few people seem to bother trying: aspiration seems very limited.

mattwnz

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#1162942 27-Oct-2014 13:30

Geektastic:
mattwnz:
Geektastic:
mattwnz:
joker97:
old3eyes: One of the main reasons house pricing is so high in Auckland is that the Realtors play on the greed of the seller telling them that they can get way more by going to auction than selling the traditional way with a fixed price and of course inflating their commission. You even see the agencies advertizing on TV that they can get x% more that other agencies.. companies..

the ONLY reason for rising prices is demand > supply.

10 houses in Epsom for sale, 100,000 people want it.

the ONLY way to drop the price is: reduce demand - either you make it illegal to buy houses, or you make people NOT want to buy houses; OR increase supply: which is not possible in microlocalities. there are only so many houses in Epsom.

but if every month you have 10 people with 10 million bucks immigrating into AKL, well ...

True, but there is nothing being done at all to fix this problem. No GST on new builds may help, but isn't enough, as their are monopolies and duopolies in the building products sectors. We pay up to triple for drywall than they do in the US for the same product. Some retailers do now import some of it, and it is slightly cheaper.

It is also overseas investors buying houses, without even coming to NZ to see it. When I was at school, some of the students families puchased quite a few houses. So they don't just stop at one house either. I would like to see only NZers be allowed to buy houses, they do restrict them overseas. I would like to see overseas buyers only allowed to buy houses if they build them eg new builds. That should increase new builds.

Where do you think that they restrict them?

You can buy a house in the USA or the UK, for example. And anyone in the EU can buy in any other EU state.

That is two very big markets.

I know you cannot in some places like Vietnam - but I do not really think I want NZ compared to Vietnam.

The question you need to answer is not how can I stop foreign nationals buying it is "why are they richer than me?".

If you legally restrict my property rights, I will expect compensation if it results in my asset losing value.

Well I believe they restrict them in some Australian states for a start. http://www.exfin.com/australian-property-firb . I believe that is on an already established property, and not on building a new one. I wouldn't be againest this sort of law change. Also I don't believe you can buy property in China. You maybe able to buy in the USA, but they have pretty big restrictions on people living there.

I would doubt any government would pay any compo, as when the government changes rules, they are done to fix a problem and to benefit the majority of NZers. It would be almost impossible to prove what amount you may have lost anyway, by not selling to an overseas investor. I didn't get any compo when they changed my lifetime drivers license to 10 years, and now have to pay to renew it every 10 years, when I had previously paid for it up until about 2050.

I don't really think you can compare wiping tens of thousands - indeed, millions on some property - of dollars of value of something owned by just about 50% of New Zealanders to cutting the length of time your driving licence lasts.

The restrictions in places like the USA restrict whether you can actually become permanently resident there not whether you can buy a house and use it when you visit as a tourist or rent it to a local. Not many comparable economies actually ban all forms of foreign ownership.

It's also hard to do. If you ban foreign individuals from owning a house, they will merely form a company domiciled in NZ and use that. Or form a trust. Or form a company domiciled overseas. If you make restrictions too complex or too harsh you will eventually damage business - what happens if a US company wants to own property here for business purposes? - and/or increase compliance and monitoring costs.

I do not personally want NZ to be perceived as some sort of parochial backwater which lives in a protectionist bubble circa 1970. As I said, the actual question is why are people poor here not why do overseas people buy houses.

It's perfectly possible to earn a lot here but so few people seem to bother trying: aspiration seems very limited.

My point was that governments can change the rules mid game, which invalidates contracts. Whether that be kiwisaver, drivers licenses, the housing market. There is already some restrictions on overseas people buying properties where some need overseas investment board approval first. So if you have a valuable one, ôr a significant property, you may have trouble selling it to an overseas buyer anyway, as there is potentially a lot of red tape involved. The thing is that housing is on of the basic needs for people, so is a government interest, so they ay need to change rules so the NZers don't become renters in their own country. Part of he problem in MZ, and why we are poor, is we undersell our companies that we create, and then end up only working for them. Many businesses now operated in NZ are not NZ owned any more, so the profits go offshore, making us poorer as a country.

Batman

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#1162955 27-Oct-2014 13:53

It's a bit tricky existing on the edge of the map though ... Rules in say Lichtenstein or Switzerland don't as easily apply here

Batman

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#1162959 27-Oct-2014 13:57

An alternative is bring someone like lee kuan yew into power who is a dictator with vision but have measures to prevent corruption and harness the power of the Internet to enrich and empower the nation. But there will still be poverty. If someone gets richer someone has to get poorer

Geektastic

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#1162979 27-Oct-2014 14:26

mattwnz:
Geektastic:
mattwnz:
Geektastic:
mattwnz:
joker97:
old3eyes: One of the main reasons house pricing is so high in Auckland is that the Realtors play on the greed of the seller telling them that they can get way more by going to auction than selling the traditional way with a fixed price and of course inflating their commission. You even see the agencies advertizing on TV that they can get x% more that other agencies.. companies..

the ONLY reason for rising prices is demand > supply.

10 houses in Epsom for sale, 100,000 people want it.

the ONLY way to drop the price is: reduce demand - either you make it illegal to buy houses, or you make people NOT want to buy houses; OR increase supply: which is not possible in microlocalities. there are only so many houses in Epsom.

but if every month you have 10 people with 10 million bucks immigrating into AKL, well ...

True, but there is nothing being done at all to fix this problem. No GST on new builds may help, but isn't enough, as their are monopolies and duopolies in the building products sectors. We pay up to triple for drywall than they do in the US for the same product. Some retailers do now import some of it, and it is slightly cheaper.

It is also overseas investors buying houses, without even coming to NZ to see it. When I was at school, some of the students families puchased quite a few houses. So they don't just stop at one house either. I would like to see only NZers be allowed to buy houses, they do restrict them overseas. I would like to see overseas buyers only allowed to buy houses if they build them eg new builds. That should increase new builds.

Where do you think that they restrict them?

You can buy a house in the USA or the UK, for example. And anyone in the EU can buy in any other EU state.

That is two very big markets.

I know you cannot in some places like Vietnam - but I do not really think I want NZ compared to Vietnam.

The question you need to answer is not how can I stop foreign nationals buying it is "why are they richer than me?".

If you legally restrict my property rights, I will expect compensation if it results in my asset losing value.

Well I believe they restrict them in some Australian states for a start. http://www.exfin.com/australian-property-firb . I believe that is on an already established property, and not on building a new one. I wouldn't be againest this sort of law change. Also I don't believe you can buy property in China. You maybe able to buy in the USA, but they have pretty big restrictions on people living there.

I would doubt any government would pay any compo, as when the government changes rules, they are done to fix a problem and to benefit the majority of NZers. It would be almost impossible to prove what amount you may have lost anyway, by not selling to an overseas investor. I didn't get any compo when they changed my lifetime drivers license to 10 years, and now have to pay to renew it every 10 years, when I had previously paid for it up until about 2050.

I don't really think you can compare wiping tens of thousands - indeed, millions on some property - of dollars of value of something owned by just about 50% of New Zealanders to cutting the length of time your driving licence lasts.

The restrictions in places like the USA restrict whether you can actually become permanently resident there not whether you can buy a house and use it when you visit as a tourist or rent it to a local. Not many comparable economies actually ban all forms of foreign ownership.

It's also hard to do. If you ban foreign individuals from owning a house, they will merely form a company domiciled in NZ and use that. Or form a trust. Or form a company domiciled overseas. If you make restrictions too complex or too harsh you will eventually damage business - what happens if a US company wants to own property here for business purposes? - and/or increase compliance and monitoring costs.

I do not personally want NZ to be perceived as some sort of parochial backwater which lives in a protectionist bubble circa 1970. As I said, the actual question is why are people poor here not why do overseas people buy houses.

It's perfectly possible to earn a lot here but so few people seem to bother trying: aspiration seems very limited.

My point was that governments can change the rules mid game, which invalidates contracts. Whether that be kiwisaver, drivers licenses, the housing market. There is already some restrictions on overseas people buying properties where some need overseas investment board approval first. So if you have a valuable one, ôr a significant property, you may have trouble selling it to an overseas buyer anyway, as there is potentially a lot of red tape involved. The thing is that housing is on of the basic needs for people, so is a government interest, so they ay need to change rules so the NZers don't become renters in their own country. Part of he problem in MZ, and why we are poor, is we undersell our companies that we create, and then end up only working for them. Many businesses now operated in NZ are not NZ owned any more, so the profits go offshore, making us poorer as a country.

You labour under the delusion that appears to assume no other nations sell their companies.

To use the UK as an example (simply because I am familiar with it) they have French utilities, Spanish banks, Indian car manufacturers, Russian car manufactures, French nuclear power plants and even Harrods is owned by the Bahraini royal family. Most of the shares on the NYSE are owned by China and the Middle East.

If the companies we are selling (and lets be honest - there are not THAT many of them in the first place) are worth more, why would the owners accept less? And why should they (to extrapolate) accept say 25% less from a Kiwi than an American will give them?

At the end of the day, no government is going to take action that beggars a significant portion of the higher earners in NZ who pay most of the tax - certainly not if they fancy being re-elected.

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