Survey from the National Party

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#660994 24-Jul-2012 13:36

networkn:
vinnieg:
dickytim:

Mandatory army reserves service for unemployed on the benefit longer 3 months.
Mandatory army reserves would cost a lot more than keeping someone on a benefit. You'd be throwing cash down my golden toilet, and the country would be even further in debt

Mandatory army reserves would NOT cost more, and certainly not more than the long term benefit which would come from people getting off their asses to be doing something.

Yeah, the thing is that the Army doesn't want draftees, who don't want to be there in the first place. Unless we see a return to trench warfare it is hard to see a place for large numbers of untrained people with rifles they hopefully point in the right direction. The military wants 'strategic corporals' capable of fighting today's 'three block wars'.

Sure, the military has been the saving of many young people who were heading off the rails but that is because they chose join rather than being forced.

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crackrdbycracku

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#660995 24-Jul-2012 13:37

kiwitrc:
crackrdbycracku: . I've read more political books than I care to mention from Ayn Rand through Plato and the other two then Hobbs and ending up with Marx and Howard Zinn, side detours through S. E. Finer, Jay Stanley included. I usually start the day with Morning Report. OK, I'm not all knowing but I'm not uninformed either.

C

Was that Calvin and Hobbs, or the other one ?

Both, Calvin was better.

Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

kiwitrc

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#660999 24-Jul-2012 13:43

crackrdbycracku:
kiwitrc:
crackrdbycracku: . I've read more political books than I care to mention from Ayn Rand through Plato and the other two then Hobbs and ending up with Marx and Howard Zinn, side detours through S. E. Finer, Jay Stanley included. I usually start the day with Morning Report. OK, I'm not all knowing but I'm not uninformed either.

C

Was that Calvin and Hobbs, or the other one ?

Both, Calvin was better.

I wouldnt worry about becoming an informed non voter, its more likely to be the same thing that got to me https://imgur.com/gallery/1bIJZ

crackrdbycracku

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#661001 24-Jul-2012 13:49

kiwitrc:
crackrdbycracku:
kiwitrc:
crackrdbycracku: . I've read more political books than I care to mention from Ayn Rand through Plato and the other two then Hobbs and ending up with Marx and Howard Zinn, side detours through S. E. Finer, Jay Stanley included. I usually start the day with Morning Report. OK, I'm not all knowing but I'm not uninformed either.

C

Was that Calvin and Hobbs, or the other one ?

Both, Calvin was better.

I wouldnt worry about becoming an informed non voter, its more likely to be the same thing that got to me https://imgur.com/gallery/1bIJZ

That is entirely my problem, I want to care. I want to make this country better for everybody including me. The problem is the the more I look the less I feel confident there is a way to do that.

Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

vinnieg

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#661046 24-Jul-2012 14:40

networkn:
Mandatory army reserves would NOT cost more, and certainly not more than the long term benefit which would come from people getting off their asses to be doing something.
I think we should probably disband our military. What would be the point in showing slack/unmotivated people in an organisation. There would be a lot of dissent. I know if I got put in the army, and didn't want to be there, I'd force a mutiny. Or assault one of the commanding officers.

Re your comment around food, you haven't thought this through. Where are people living in apartments going to get trees animals and access to the ground? If they can't be bothered to work for a living the chances of them hunting and gathering their own food == next to nil.
Switched on gardener should have some supplies for this

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

networkn

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#661048 24-Jul-2012 14:49

vinnieg:
networkn:
Mandatory army reserves would NOT cost more, and certainly not more than the long term benefit which would come from people getting off their asses to be doing something.
I think we should probably disband our military. What would be the point in showing slack/unmotivated people in an organisation. There would be a lot of dissent. I know if I got put in the army, and didn't want to be there, I'd force a mutiny. Or assault one of the commanding officers.

Re your comment around food, you haven't thought this through. Where are people living in apartments going to get trees animals and access to the ground? If they can't be bothered to work for a living the chances of them hunting and gathering their own food == next to nil.
Switched on gardener should have some supplies for this

You could certainly TRY and force a mutiny. You don't think you would be the first to try and fail? You would just be running with bricks in your bag up a hill in the rain soon enough :)

Switched on Gardener has supplies for what? Land? These are the people who won't get off their asses to work, and you want them to take the initiative to go and BUY something for their own long term benefit and look after it without someone standing over them?

vinnieg

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#661055 24-Jul-2012 14:59

networkn:

You could certainly TRY and force a mutiny. You don't think you would be the first to try and fail? You would just be running with bricks in your bag up a hill in the rain soon enough :)
I'd just wait for the weapons training, take a few others out with me.

Switched on Gardener has supplies for what? Land? These are the people who won't get off their asses to work, and you want them to take the initiative to go and BUY something for their own long term benefit and look after it without someone standing over them?
Hydroponic wardrobes, I'm sure quite a few of them already have them for growing their own tomatoes!

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

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#661057 24-Jul-2012 15:03

vinnieg:
networkn:

You could certainly TRY and force a mutiny. You don't think you would be the first to try and fail? You would just be running with bricks in your bag up a hill in the rain soon enough :)
I'd just wait for the weapons training, take a few others out with me.

Switched on Gardener has supplies for what? Land? These are the people who won't get off their asses to work, and you want them to take the initiative to go and BUY something for their own long term benefit and look after it without someone standing over them?
Hydroponic wardrobes, I'm sure quite a few of them already have them for growing their own tomatoes!

So you would rather spend your life in prison than be part of the reserves? Somehow I doubt it.

I have no idea what you are talking about re your second point.

vinnieg

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#661065 24-Jul-2012 15:15

networkn:
So you would rather spend your life in prison than be part of the reserves? Somehow I doubt it.
Think I'd rather be dead, having already spent 5 years in the cadets, 1 year in the territorials training to be part of the RNZAF in the Skyhawk era. It's just an awful life. Some do enjoy it, sure, but for me it was pure hell. I realised this after I left, till then it was basically some sort of stupid game. "flight will turn to the left", "wakey wakey hands of snakey", and other bollocks. I'd rather have some sleep-ins.

I have no idea what you are talking about re your second point.
Might be a Wellington thing, it's an annoying advert on the radio down here :)

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

crackrdbycracku

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#661078 24-Jul-2012 15:27

networkn:
vinnieg:
networkn:

You could certainly TRY and force a mutiny. You don't think you would be the first to try and fail? You would just be running with bricks in your bag up a hill in the rain soon enough :)
I'd just wait for the weapons training, take a few others out with me.

Switched on Gardener has supplies for what? Land? These are the people who won't get off their asses to work, and you want them to take the initiative to go and BUY something for their own long term benefit and look after it without someone standing over them?
Hydroponic wardrobes, I'm sure quite a few of them already have them for growing their own tomatoes!

So you would rather spend your life in prison than be part of the reserves? Somehow I doubt it.

You have no idea what you are talking about

It should read like this.

Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

vinnieg

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#661080 24-Jul-2012 15:32

crackrdbycracku:
networkn:
vinnieg:
networkn:

You could certainly TRY and force a mutiny. You don't think you would be the first to try and fail? You would just be running with bricks in your bag up a hill in the rain soon enough :)
I'd just wait for the weapons training, take a few others out with me.

Switched on Gardener has supplies for what? Land? These are the people who won't get off their asses to work, and you want them to take the initiative to go and BUY something for their own long term benefit and look after it without someone standing over them?
Hydroponic wardrobes, I'm sure quite a few of them already have them for growing their own tomatoes!

So you would rather spend your life in prison than be part of the reserves? Somehow I doubt it.

You have no idea what you are talking about

It should read like this.

But I thought hydroponics were for tomatoes!
:(

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

gzt

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#661310 24-Jul-2012 20:59

Really enjoying this thread. There was a point when I could not tell who was trolling who or what for?! : ). but after that it got even better : ).

Brendan

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#661345 24-Jul-2012 22:23

gzt: Really enjoying this thread. There was a point when I could not tell who was trolling who or what for?! : ). but after that it got even better : ).

When I realized that they did not understand that every system has it's flaws, it was obvious their opinions were more religion than science.
When I realized that - well, I love stirring up the religious. Even more than politics.

Still, a few interesting questions and points came up. I might see if I can reply to a few of them, but I really have to cut back - I don't have a lot of time/energy.

Brendan

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#661347 24-Jul-2012 22:25

John2010:
Brendan: ...
I think the point is that as tax payers, we ALL already own equal shares in these assets.

Actually none of us own shares ("equal" or otherwise) in these assets at all, nor do we have any other form of "ownership". Unless you have rights that the rest of us do not have we do not have any of the rights that ownership would deliver to us.

Just some basic examples, we do not get to elect the board members and determine their remuneration, nor do we vote to retain or otherwise the auditors and to accept their reports or not. We also do not have any rights to attend shareholder meetings. All those are the basic rights of owners.

Of course, if you buy some shares, as even the leader of the Labour Party is now saying NZ'ers should do (Morning Report, 24 July, 2012), you will become one of the owners and get those rights. In fact you will have much more say, little though that may be, as to their futures than you now have.

Well stated, and reasonably neutral.

I of course did not mean shares as in stocks and shares, but shares as in fractions of the whole, or it was shared around.

Brendan

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#661352 24-Jul-2012 22:39

crackrdbycracku: What is worse, the seemingly blatant corruption of National who are doing it for the money or the champagne liberalist detachment of Labour who seem to really not understand that many of us are struggling and are removed from the concerns of middle NZ?

C

Refreshing! And actual intelligent question!

Of course, the answer is neither.

They are all biased towards a particular ideological belief system - all as badly flawed as any religion - and that is the last thing we need.

On the Right we have politicians mindlessly chanting Magical Market Mantras, and on the Left we have droll station keeping.

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