Buyer claims an item is faulty after inspected purchase

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#726585 4-Dec-2012 07:34

Maisy:
alasta: An interesting range of views here.

I personally believe that in any case where the seller has acted in good faith and has not misrepresented the goods then the burden of risk lies with the buyer. I say that on the basis that it is generally accepted that there is an element of risk associated with buying second hand goods from a private seller.

Unfortunately a Disputes Tribunal hearing could go either way because these things tend to end up with a "he said, she said" dialogue where the facts get twisted from either or both sides and the outcome depends on the particular interpretation of the adjudicator. Having said that I think it's pretty unlikely that it would end up in the Disputes Tribunal anyway because it's likely that the buyer realises that she is being petty and is just trying her luck.

Yes I had hoped that that would be the case, however I have just received an email from the buyer's husband, which makes various accusations of deceit and guilt, and demands a refund. Oh dear, looks like this is going to go to the Disputes Tribunal.

Keep all emails and records of conversations. If you feel threatened or worried that they might come to your house call the police.

I had a similar situation (but involved an ex girlfriend returning to the house and damaging items) and the although the police couldnt do anything due to the whole defacto situation i was in, they were able to call the ex and ask her not to return to the property. The call alone was enough to stop the visits.

By involving the police now, you would be doing two things, 1. letting the buyer that you are worried about your safety, and 2. letting the police know before it escalates further (so that if something does happen they can go back to the records)

I personally believe that you have no reason to refund the money, and it is sounding more and more like it was damaged in moving (and the buyer will not admit to/understand that it was caused by her) or that the item was purchased and someone said "you paid way too much for that!"

bagheera

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#726607 4-Dec-2012 09:08

looking at the pic they have taken - if it was like that before she bought it - her inspection should have easily have spotted that issue, that more then faint lines, and any one inspecting to use it for graphic would have easily spotted that issue.

gzt

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#726608 4-Dec-2012 09:09

Maisy: OK, here we go, side by side:

When you viewed the issue at the buyers place - was the effect that extreme in person?

Things like that often look worse in photographs for various reasons. But at least everyone here now knows exactly the kind of effect that is being discussed and can differentiate it from other kinds of screen faults.

At about 4 pages into the discussion you are getting new people asking points already covered because the discussion goes over several pages and changing pages more requires effort. There is an easy fix guys - Use the green 'Single Page' button to see everything on one page - before posting.

martyyn

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#726621 4-Dec-2012 09:26

I gave up reading at page 5 due to all the 'the buyer inspected it, tell them to sod off' posts. From personal experience I can tell you its far from being that easy.

When it comes to the Disputes Tribunal buyer beware is certainly a factor, but it has little to do with any final decision. I was in a similar position to the OP and walked in thinking the law was on my side and I was sweet. I'd spent hours with a lawyer going over the details who agreed and who gave me an opening speech talking all about caveat emptor, etc but I couldn't have been more wrong. I got two sentences into it and was told to stop because buyer beware was not considered a defence in the small claims court.

Any adjudicator given to your case will have a broad understanding of the law but is far from a lawyer. They will certainly know nothing about the technicalities of any faults and whether the damage could have occurred in transit and their main focus will be on whether you misrepresented the item in anyway way.

The fact the buyer inspected the item helps the OP's case but if you have misrepresented the item (on the auction description primarily, but also including any contact/texts/emails you had before, during and after the auction) the focus will come on you.

In my case, it was accepted I had not misrepresented the item, accepted the buyer had paid for a pre-purchase inspection (showing no faults), accepted I had raised a fault with the buyer before he bought the item and accepted the claimed faults were completely unproven two months after the auction and yet I was still made to pay an amount to the buyer because the adjudicator thought it was 'appropriate'.

My advice would be to talk to the buyer calmly (not by email or text) and explain you have not misrepresented the item (I haven't seen the advert), the damage could well have occurred in transit and they viewed the item and were happy to continue with the purchase.

If you can convince them chalk it up to experience. If you think you can handle a single bad feedback then do so, but if you think they are going to take it further consider refunding the money and sell it again.

Ultimately, regardless of what the buyer should have done, regardless of what they did do, it will come down to what a reasonable person would have done and not too many of us on here are 'reasonable' are we :)

Is it reasonable for someone to take all manner of equipment to check a second hand item ? If you a professional as the buyer claims, we would argue the answer is yes. But if you're Joe Bloggs its highly unlikely and in that case, in my experience, buyer-beware counts for little.

cyberbuddha

70 posts

Master Geek

#726655 4-Dec-2012 10:56

Seems others have this problem too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHZii0edA2U

I am searching to see if I can find a fix for you.

Worth asking them to check to see if the graphics card is seated properly. I just sold a computer on TradeMe the other week which I knew was working. Guy had problems when he got it home, and it was just that the graphics card had come loose in transit. Worth a try anyway.

cyberbuddha

70 posts

Master Geek

#726657 4-Dec-2012 11:01

Also, just a thought, has the monitor been tested out on another iMac? I doubt the monitor is faulty, more like an issue with the graphics card anyway. At least if the monitor was tested out connected to another iMac this could rule out (or confirm) issues with the monitor. Would not confirm if the issues were caused by the buyer, but at least you might know whether the monitor really is faulty or not.

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gzt

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#726661 4-Dec-2012 11:06

First - It's an iMac. No user serviceable parts (except memory for this model). [Edit: You obviously do not know that monitor is built into iMac]. It is an all in one configuration. That is basic.

Second - it is a physical hardware problem. There is no software fix.

Given she has the original receipts from new maisy could try to have this addressed by the original retailer using the CGA. Difficult first of all because she does not have possession of the machine.

timmmay

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#726662 4-Dec-2012 11:07

External factors should be considered - magnets, radio waves, etc. Perhaps they can try it in another part of their house.

Maisy

24 posts

Geek

#726664 4-Dec-2012 11:08

cyberbuddha: Also, just a thought, has the monitor been tested out on another iMac? I doubt the monitor is faulty, more like an issue with the graphics card anyway. At least if the monitor was tested out connected to another iMac this could rule out (or confirm) issues with the monitor. Would not confirm if the issues were caused by the buyer, but at least you might know whether the monitor really is faulty or not.

Thanks, this is useful. I will suggest that she tries connecting the iMac in question to another computer. So, if the problem is with the graphics card, it would be visible on both monitors?

gzt

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#726668 4-Dec-2012 11:14

Maisy:
cyberbuddha: Also, just a thought, has the monitor been tested out on another iMac? I doubt the monitor is faulty, more like an issue with the graphics card anyway. At least if the monitor was tested out connected to another iMac this could rule out (or confirm) issues with the monitor. Would not confirm if the issues were caused by the buyer, but at least you might know whether the monitor really is faulty or not.

Thanks, this is useful. I will suggest that she tries connecting the iMac in question to another computer. So, if the problem is with the graphics card, it would be visible on both monitors?

The buyer will need an Apple adaptor to use a standard DVI or VGA monitor and could well need a few clues to configure the iMac correctly after attaching it.

An outcome will narrow down the cause of the problem but it does not change the fact of the problem or the nature of the dispute and it does not really help either party progress towards solving it.

Maisy

24 posts

Geek

#726670 4-Dec-2012 11:16

gzt:
Maisy:
cyberbuddha: Also, just a thought, has the monitor been tested out on another iMac? I doubt the monitor is faulty, more like an issue with the graphics card anyway. At least if the monitor was tested out connected to another iMac this could rule out (or confirm) issues with the monitor. Would not confirm if the issues were caused by the buyer, but at least you might know whether the monitor really is faulty or not.

Thanks, this is useful. I will suggest that she tries connecting the iMac in question to another computer. So, if the problem is with the graphics card, it would be visible on both monitors?

The buyer will need an Apple adaptor to use a standard DVI or VGA monitor.

An outcome will narrow down the cause of the problem but it does not change the fact of the problem or the nature of the dispute and it does not really help either party progress towards solving it.

But if the test indicates that the graphics card is just loose, won't it be quite simple for her to have it fixed (put back in place)?

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cyberbuddha

70 posts

Master Geek

#726674 4-Dec-2012 11:18

There are servicable parts in this model http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+iMac+Intel+20-Inch+EMC+2133+and+2210+Video+Card/1014/5

gzt

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#726692 4-Dec-2012 11:32

Maisy:
gzt:
Maisy:
cyberbuddha: Also, just a thought, has the monitor been tested out on another iMac? I doubt the monitor is faulty, more like an issue with the graphics card anyway. At least if the monitor was tested out connected to another iMac this could rule out (or confirm) issues with the monitor. Would not confirm if the issues were caused by the buyer, but at least you might know whether the monitor really is faulty or not.

Thanks, this is useful. I will suggest that she tries connecting the iMac in question to another computer. So, if the problem is with the graphics card, it would be visible on both monitors?

The buyer will need an Apple adaptor to use a standard DVI or VGA monitor.

An outcome will narrow down the cause of the problem but it does not change the fact of the problem or the nature of the dispute and it does not really help either party progress towards solving it.

But if the test indicates that the graphics card is just loose, won't it be quite simple for her to have it fixed (put back in place)?

cyberbuddha: There are servicable parts in this model http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+iMac+Intel+20-Inch+EMC+2133+and+2210+Video+Card/1014/5

The test cannot indicate the graphics card is loose.

The test can only give some indication there is a problem with the graphics output or not.

mattwnz

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#726810 4-Dec-2012 13:44

bagheera: looking at the pic they have taken - if it was like that before she bought it - her inspection should have easily have spotted that issue, that more then faint lines, and any one inspecting to use it for graphic would have easily spotted that issue.

I am not sure on that. As I said previously, Grey will show panel problems far worse than other colours. I doubt that would show up on a white screen. I have seen that sort of thing on cheap poor quality screens before.

If the buyer sends you a photo of the screen with a white background, like the photo you have, can you see the lines on it, as that is a more a fair comparison. I think the buyer is best to get it inspected by a professional to see what the issue is, and whether infact it has been caused by being banged or not.

Maisy

24 posts

Geek

#726812 4-Dec-2012 13:48

mattwnz:
bagheera: looking at the pic they have taken - if it was like that before she bought it - her inspection should have easily have spotted that issue, that more then faint lines, and any one inspecting to use it for graphic would have easily spotted that issue.

I am not sure on that. As I said previously, Grey will show panel problems far worse than other colours. I doubt that would show up on a white screen. I have seen that sort of thing on cheap poor quality screens before.

I consider this to be relatively moot, given that during the pre-purchase inspection the screen was viewed in a variety of conditions.

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