Cyclists riding on footpaths - have you nearly hit one?

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Regs

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Snowflake

#640823 14-Jun-2012 16:11

mattwnz: Apparently jaywalking is also illegal, but I have never seen anyone fined for it.

its only 'illegal' within x meters of an existing pedestrial crossing (zebra or lights) if i recall correctly. if it were generally illegal, we would never get accross roads in this country! Its illegal in many places in the US, but probably by city bylaw.

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keewee01

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#640864 14-Jun-2012 17:16

mattwnz:
My local council has removed all the cycle lanes, and turned them into parking bays. They are also no longer going to provide free recycling collection either, but that is another topic.
I do think that cyclists riding on footpaths these days, is given the blind eye by the authorities, they have bigger things to do. Apparently jaywalking is also illegal, but I have never seen anyone fined for it. I see so many cyclist on the footpath these days, often it is kids riding with their parents, when the footpath is likely to be more dangerous than riding on the road. At least drivers on the road can see you if you are cycling, unlike drivers coming out of driveways.

That is a crying shame that they're doing away with cycle lanes :(

I guess the parking bays are more profitable and I know at least our local council has become very greedy for money, milking cash from where ever they can.

No free recycling collection!??? How can a council do that - I would have thought free recycling would be there under there core social responsibilities!

mattwnz

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#640902 14-Jun-2012 18:30

keewee01: I would have thought free recycling would be there under there core social responsibilities!

They haven't turned the cycle lanes into paid carparks, just parking bays. I think it possibly could have been due to some law change in the past, that possibly meant cycle lanes couldn't be shared with parked cars. I do recall reading something about the reason for the cycle lane removal.

Regarding free recycling, the council have apparently done it because they want to reduce the rates rise. Instead they are making it a user pays system, so you have to pay $60 per year for a special recycling bin, and you don't have to do it. There is also no other rubbish collection provided by the council, so we also have to pay $300 odd per year for normal rubbish pickup too. People will just put their recycling into the normal bin, as they won't want to pay extra. Our local council is going backwards when it comes to eco friendliness.

merve0o0

492 posts

Ultimate Geek

#640970 14-Jun-2012 20:04

I drive past a college every morning and something I have noticed is the "kids" are doing lately is longboarding on the road against traffic.

I said "kids" because this college 6th form up don't wear uniform and they are not in uniform so they are old enough to know better

mattwnz

20141 posts

Uber Geek

#641002 14-Jun-2012 21:24

Regs:
mattwnz: Apparently jaywalking is also illegal, but I have never seen anyone fined for it.

its only 'illegal' within x meters of an existing pedestrial crossing (zebra or lights) if i recall correctly.? if it were generally illegal, we would never get accross roads in this country!? Its illegal in many places in the US, but probably by city bylaw.

According to wikipedia, there is a $4000 fine for adults jaywalking within 20 meters of a crossing or if the light is red in NZ. That is more than fines for far worse things.
Riding a cycle on a footpath only incurs a $200 fine. While there is only a $55 fine for refusing to wear a helmet.

aw

286 posts

Ultimate Geek

#642105 17-Jun-2012 14:27

keewee01:
aw:
keewee01: Similarly I don't give cyclists riding across a pedestrian crossing the time of day either. If they've stopped and dismounted I will stop and let them cross the crossing, as they are a pedestrian. Otherwise, tough.

If I take that to its logical conclusion, as a pedestrian crossing your driveway shouldn't I expect you to get out of your car and walk/push it across the footpath when entering and exiting your driveway?

A little tolerance of what is practial might be in order.

Personally I think it should be legal for a cyclist to use the footpath, level crossing etc but at no more than, say, 10km/h if that footpath isn't posted as shared/cycleway.

Footpaths are there to allow pedestrians a safe place to travel off the road (rather than having to walk along the side of the road). When it comes to driveways it is a respect thing both ways. You suggest I have no tolerance. You don't know me. How dare you suggest I am not tolerant! I am very tolerant.

Sorry if I said that ambiguously, to expand on that, what I meant was a little tolerance from all road users of what is practial might be in order. That said, that was quite a reaction there, overdefensive even, like I inadvertently struck a nerve?

keewee01:The point I make is that there are a lot of cyclists, skateboards, etc out there who are flouting clear rules/laws - why should those who know better be afforded tolerance? It isn't legal for ANYONE to run a red light or travel down a footpath at 30 or 40km/h. (And the same goes for drivers breaking the law, I don't have anything against cyclists, pedestrians, skateboarders or anyone else in general - but some of you have made up your own little minds that I do - well you are wrong!)

Crackrdbycracu's response to this is brilliant.

keewee01: If there are a lot of cyclists in your area then you should be lobbying the local authorities to create cycle lines like has happened locally.

Cycling facilities around my neighborhood are relatively good, the second closest main road has bike lanes all the way to the Northwestern Cycleway.

keewee01: I take this view of cyclists riding across pedestrian crossings because it is illegal for them to do so (or at least it certainly used to be an instant $80 fine). By stopping to allow them to cycle where they're not meant to be am I not them encouraging their illegal behavior?

If cyclists are using footpaths, etc then I agree that it should be at a low speed, and no one would probably take issue with it - but the reality is there are a lot out there (cyclists, skateboarders, etc) in a hurry to get somewhere (like many motorists are too) and traveling a darn site faster along footpaths than is safe for all users of the footpath.

A number of skateboarders were regularly skating along the footpath of our main street at speed - they were forcing pedestrians to get out of their way, elderly people were being jostled by then, and anyone who didn't move out of there [sic] way or asked them to slow down was abused. Therefore, skateboards were banned from the footpaths of our main street. Should we have been more tolerant of the skateboarders behavior?

Again, Crackrdbycracu's response to this is brilliant.

I will add: not if the majority of them were being menacing. But that raises a good case for banning cars in Queen St Auckland - a number of them are menacing, and anyone who doesn't move out of their way or asks them to slow down gets abused. Besides, there's no driveways or off-street carparks anywhere on Queen St north of Mayoral Drive.

mattwnz: My local council has removed all the cycle lanes, and turned them into parking bays.

That sucks. May I ask which council, or which roads' cycle lanes were removed?

aw

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Ultimate Geek

#642107 17-Jun-2012 14:32

Oh, and don't get me started on jaywalking laws and their history.

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mattwnz

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#642114 17-Jun-2012 15:03

aw:That sucks. May I ask which council, or which roads' cycle lanes were removed?

Upper Hutt city, they removed them from the main arterial road, Fergusson Drive, several years ago. Well at least they removed the cycle lane symbols from the road (or didn't repaint them_. There are still spaces for cyclists, but they are shared with parking, and they aren't called cycle lanes. It is dangerous riding in them, because cars just open their doors with disregard to cyclists, and you have to move into the car lane to avoid the parked cars. There are still some cycle lanes in the parks and by the river for recreational cycling, but they aren't practical if you want to travel to the city.

qwerty7

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#642936 19-Jun-2012 09:09

just came across this ..
http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/text-of-day_31.html

the attitudes of some cyclist are appalling as are those of some car owners

geek4me

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#642973 19-Jun-2012 09:52

In today's Dominion Post this guy has been knocked from his mobility scooter twice! He has every right to be on the footpath but be careful out there - no point being dead right! Assume there is someone coming out of every obscured driveway. Pretty scary stuff.

This was on page 3 of today's paper with a special ad for it on the front page. Stuff has details here.

BurningBeard

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#643067 19-Jun-2012 12:00

GregV: I regularly bike on the footpath on one particular section of road. The roadway is quite narrow, and prone to sun-strike on the way home. On the other hand, the footpath is quite a long way out from the fenceline, so I have good visibility of cars exiting their driveways. Hopefully any police officer pulling me over will agree with me :)

Yeah I still sometimes do it too. Have never had a close call.

Have had more close calls as a pedestrian though - from drivers who reverse out too fast.

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John2010

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#644222 21-Jun-2012 12:21

Regs:
mattwnz: Apparently jaywalking is also illegal, but I have never seen anyone fined for it.

its only 'illegal' within x meters of an existing pedestrial crossing (zebra or lights) if i recall correctly. if it were generally illegal, we would never get accross roads in this country! Its illegal in many places in the US, but probably by city bylaw.

Just using the above as a useful jumping off point, not picking on you

, just that many seem to not understand what jaywalking is.

Jaywalking is always illegal. If one crosses the road where the law does not prescribe that you cannot (like within the stated distance from a pedestrian or controlled crossing) or one does not give way to a vehicle when crossing elsewhere, then and only then is it jaywalking. Apart from that there there is no problem pedestrians crossing roads and in those circumstances pedestrians are not jaywalking but they must give way to vehicles.

The general impression from some here seems to infer that any crossing of the road by a pedestrian other than at a crossing is jaywalking certainly explains the incorrectly targeted intolerance by many motorists of pedestrians in those "non jaywalking" circumstances.

Regarding the USA, if I recall correctly, where there is the requirement you refer to it is a state one, but again it is not a general prohibition of pedestrians crossing roads other than at controlled or marked crossings. Typically it is a requirement along the lines of if the intersections at each end of a block have controlled crossings or there is a crossing within the length of the block then and only then if you do not use them are you jaywalking.

As I say, working on memory there but think it is along the right lines and what is more seems to keep one out of trouble

LookingUp

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Ultimate Geek

#644238 21-Jun-2012 13:01

qwerty7: just came across this ..
http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/text-of-day_31.html

the attitudes of some cyclist are appalling as are those of some car owners

As a cyclist, I'd have to agree that the tenor of the text is wrong, and I'd fine the arrogant SOB as well purely for their lack of a logical excuse, but that fining of cyclists for running red lights isn't as clear cut as one might think.

For a start, at certain times, some red lights on minor roads are run off sensors, and will only change when they sense a vehicle approaching. They don't sense cycles, so in this situation the cyclist has three choices - push the pedestrian crossing button IF there is one (incidentally involving riding on the footpath to get there), wait for a car, or break the law and ride on through.

Then there's the consequence of running the light - if I do it in a car I could easily kill someone, if I do it on my bike I'm the one most likely to be killed. It's my responsibility if I put myself in danger, but should be punishable if I endanger others.

An finally, there are intersections where it's downright dangerous to cross on a green. I go through one every day I cycle home. There are two sets of lights approx 20m apart. The first set has two straight ahead lanes. The second set has a free-turn left onto a major road, straight ahead, and right turn. If I cycle off it the correct lane and aim to go straight ahead, I can pretty much guarantee that one or more cars will drive in front and across me to get to the left turn. I've had cars literally burn rubber to achieve this, and several cyclists from where I work have been bowled here. I REFUSE to stop at that first set of lights, and will ONLY cross on red, as it's the only time I know I'm not going to get hit from behind, and I can see and manage all dangers in front.

Things are LookingUp.... A photo from my back yard :-)

geek4me

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#644277 21-Jun-2012 14:43

LookingUp: I REFUSE to stop at that first set of lights, and will ONLY cross on red, as it's the only time I know I'm not going to get hit from behind, and I can see and manage all dangers in front.

Hope you're "Looking Up" when you do cross on red - sorry I couldn't resist that

. Be sure to report back here if at any time this doesn't work out.

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