Why blame P2P and not youtube ?

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JUPITER2K

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#21649 3-May-2008 10:29

It seems P2P is to blame for bandwidth hog. Why not youtube streaming ?
Most users are downloading it at peaktime.

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#128138 3-May-2008 11:36

Perhaps because people on other providers can stream from it fine?

Why blaming traffic may be a fun game, the providers should be buying more capacity or trying to solve the situation. Remember you are buying traffic from them, its not your fault they oversold too much of it.

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#128144 3-May-2008 12:05

I would say the volume of data swapped through P2P networks is well over people stream from YouTube...

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#128148 3-May-2008 12:20

freitasm: I would say the volume of data swapped through P2P networks is well over people stream from YouTube...

Actually you would be suprised, AT&T in America stopped making the arguement that P2P traffic was the main cause of slowdowns and hence the targetting of filtering as now normal streaming media such as YouTube is taking over (P2P they quoted was at 20% network share.)

I think this is because mom and pop find P2P too hard, and legally scary, but YouTube and various other sites are much friendlier.

I also think this is perhaps why XNET is trying to find a better solution than just blocking x protocol.

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JUPITER2K

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Master Geek

#128187 3-May-2008 14:16

Isn't the Xnet forum with 27 + pages long and they mostly complaining youtube download issue at peak time?

Using data bougth as one wishes is another issue all together.

Just a thougth!

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#128203 3-May-2008 15:14

No the problem is not YouTube. Slow YouTube is a sign of congestion, not the congestion.

You should make a distinction between cause and effect. P2P is the cause, slow YouTube is the effect.

ArsTecnica says that P2P could be responsible for up to 90% of the current Internet traffic.

I am not saying P2P is bad. I am saying ISPs have no metrics to plan their usage requirements - although I would say a bit of queueing theory plus traffic theory would help a bit.

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hellonearthisman

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#128221 3-May-2008 16:49

YouTube is cacheable, that means that is you view a movie and them someone else views it, the 2nd peraon will most likely see the cached copy. p2p is much more random data from many random locations and caches poorly.

That's just another factor in the why. p2p can go when you sleep, youtube, even timeshifting the content means downloading would not take as much time as torrents. Torrents are for big files 300mb and up but youtubes max at 100MB to 200MB, much smaller content.

I like slingshots start a little, well the argument sounds good, of shapping p2p traffic to manage the network.

But I don't want to point at an ISP and say it there fault, when it could be an upstream company doing the shapping over there bit of the internet.

NZ doesn't make a good mesh with on one cable for all data.

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#128338 4-May-2008 08:59

I'm with cokermaster on this. Most ISPs need to wake up to the fact that their overselling business model may be making them money but doesn't fit with the reality of use of the internet.

There should be no traffic shaping at all and a minimum guaranteed bandwidth available at all time to everysingle customer at once (obviously your line quality is in play here).

Although I no longer use P2P (rapidshare account now) the reality of what bandwidth it actually used was so small. You never achieved 24/7 downloads in the megabits range. If you had then you would actually finish the file. Not many people bother to share once they have 100% of the file.

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#128352 4-May-2008 10:07

freitasm: No the problem is not YouTube. Slow YouTube is a sign of congestion, not the congestion.

You should make a distinction between cause and effect. P2P is the cause, slow YouTube is the effect.

ArsTecnica says that P2P could be responsible for up to 90% of the current Internet traffic.

Well Comcast which actually run a ISP network, unlike ArsTecnica which are just geeks with a website, come out and publically state that P2P is not causing the current bandwidth problems on their network, to quote the article.

"No, p2p is no longer the single biggest traffic w hore, responsible for only 20 percent of total traffic. It's streaming video, like YouTube and Hulu, which is now 50 percent of total traffic. Which explains Comcast's flip on network management and why it's a total smokescreen."

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#128353 4-May-2008 10:12

The article quotes a third party study, not ArsTechnica opinion.

Joost uses about 350 to 500 MB an hour for its video. And it uses a P2P technology. It is not file sharing.

P2P is any technology used to distribute large amount of files or content through peering. It can be used to distribute legitimate software downloads, or video content such as Joost, LiveStation and others.

P2P is not only file sharing and a lot of companies are working on a less intrusive technology called P4P.

Let's just hope it works.

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#128354 4-May-2008 10:12

hellonearthisman: YouTube is cacheable, that means that is you view a movie and them someone else views it, the 2nd peraon will most likely see the cached copy. p2p is much more random data from many random locations and caches poorly.

Actually P2P is easily cachable, Netapp specialise in boxes which do just that (they measure what torrents are most popular, make a copy when they are downloading, then intecept the download requests for them straight from their cache.

A American ISP (I forget which one) in one of netapp's case examples found after the release of a very popular blockbuster that it was consuming Approx 80% of all P2P traffic. They are progressing the protocol to P4P which allows intelligent routing and caching of traffic to more local hosts to assist ISP's with traffic problems.

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#128361 4-May-2008 10:54

freitasm: The article quotes a third party study, not ArsTechnica opinion.

Check out this graph, it's a live slice of data from a very open British ISP. You can see P2P peek between midnight and 6 AM, but in peek time streaming media is using around 5 times more bandwidth than P2P and slightly less than web traffic.

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