Help with options (Bethells Beach)

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#1178075 18-Nov-2014 18:48

And to think I was discussing (with Telecom) getting Frame Relay out to Bethells, back in the days when I lived in West Auckland and had F/R service to home (Henderson).

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hotrok

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#1181970 24-Nov-2014 10:31

Great reply from Gerard there. Chorus were very good in getting a quote for me to upgrade the local cabinet. It was of a different order 40k. I tried very hard locally to drum up support for getting the cabinet upgraded. There are fifty homes on the cabinet and myself and another guy put in 10k so we were down to 30k between 47 homes. I got about another 3-4k from others but thats it no one else would contribute!
It really sucked especially as most of these people are living in 700k plus lifestyle blocks and they would not chip in a small amount that would only add more value then the sum of the money they put in by a factor of least 10.

The only option for long term is having community based projects like b4rn project in the rural Uk. I dont know how we could get something like this off the ground here but its very impressive!

MichaelNZ

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#1181983 24-Nov-2014 10:52

hotrok: Great reply from Gerard there. Chorus were very good in getting a quote for me to upgrade the local cabinet. It was of a different order 40k. I tried very hard locally to drum up support for getting the cabinet upgraded. There are fifty homes on the cabinet and myself and another guy put in 10k so we were down to 30k between 47 homes. I got about another 3-4k from others but thats it no one else would contribute!
It really sucked especially as most of these people are living in 700k plus lifestyle blocks and they would not chip in a small amount that would only add more value then the sum of the money they put in by a factor of least 10.

The only option for long term is having community based projects like b4rn project in the rural Uk. I dont know how we could get something like this off the ground here but its very impressive!

I get where you are coming from. There is some weird dynamics in a lot of rural communities.

A few nights ago I was driving along an unlit rural 100km/hr country road at around midnight and I came across a horse in the middle of the road. I pulled over, assessed the situation, grabbed a rope out of my car and proceeded to capture the horse. After a bit of horsing around (haha) horse (who was a big bugger) was grabbed, tied up to a fence and seemed to be quite friendly, despite that he/she initially tried to be difficult.

I then went looking for the owner. I was tired and wanted to get my rope back so I could be on my way. Did anyone who's door I knocked on (a couple of which who were clearly home) respond? Noone did. At least one of them was the horse owner. It could have been them that came around the corner and crashed into the horse. Could have been their neighbors house on fire... Obviously noone gave a damn.

I ended up having to drive back to town (where the cellphone reception was), call the Police, who called animal control.

So I get what you are saying, but some things just don't make sense.

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hotrok

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Master Geek

#1182023 24-Nov-2014 11:11

One of the biggest issues is the people who own most of these lifestyle blocks bought them when they were relatively cheap and they are downsized farmers or people who want to escape the town/city life. Most of them around my area are retired and just husband and wife with no kids. They only use the internet to pay bills and read emails and occasionally Skype to relatives abroad. When I have asked people how you are finding the internet, its slow at night but for usable during the day but its no big deal. They admit when their grandkids come to stay with them, the first thing the kids ask for is the password for the wireless routers and that the kids complain how slow the internet is.

Short term fix-----Allow Chorus to upgrade cabinets with government money but charge customers to join the new internet connection depending on net speed (VDSL;ADSL 2). Chorus then return the money back to the government or an investment pot for further upgrades.

Long term fix----Communities lay fibre across farmland private property keeping costs down and communities buy shares in the community run fibre company. Government makes it easy to connect to existing fibre backhauls.

wellygary

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#1182036 24-Nov-2014 11:29

hotrok:
Short term fix-----Allow Chorus to upgrade cabinets with government money but charge customers to join the new internet connection depending on net speed (VDSL;ADSL 2). Chorus then return the money back to the government or an investment pot for further upgrades.

The problem with this as you have alluded to is that the true cost to Chorus is circa $1000 per connection and at that price most customers will simply put up with what they have,
So your investment pot will simplydribble into a few cabinet upgrades, but until customers take up the services the scheme grinds to a halt.

hotrok

71 posts

Master Geek

#1182070 24-Nov-2014 12:17

You are correct wellygary to a certain extent but at the moment it is beginning to get hard to sell a property without good/reasonable internet so if you have a viable option that is not too difficult to access then paying for an upgrade that will add value and make your house more desirable. This is an angle that will appeal far more to this group of people then telling them about mbs etc.
I tried the voluntary chip in approach but people have different excuses from I dont use the internet that much or one of the biggest stumbling blocks is I wont contribute unless everyone contributes. Welcome to the allaboutme society!!

deadlyllama

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#1182149 24-Nov-2014 14:05

If you've got 30-40k worth of chipping in already, why not go back to the wireless ISP you mentioned and ask what it would cost for them to extend coverage to your area?

Alternatively is there anyone in line of site from your house who *can* get decent speeds? Point to point links are dirt cheap if you DIY.

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KiwiBlue

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#1185998 1-Dec-2014 00:05

Hi guys,

This thread has been quite useful to understand the situation with regards to internet in and around Bethells Beach. Thank you.

However, it would be really good if we can give a more layman's meaning to all of this. I say this because I am considering relocating to Bethells Beach in the 100-110 Bethells Road area...near the WAK/B point i would say...

What does that really mean for my internet? I understand this can be a subjective question so...perhaps we can list activities that would be easily doable with the slow internet?

If my requirement is to :

1) Surf the internet for websites (mostly text)

2) Video streaming lectures, interviews etc usually 1-2hrs in length

3) Downloading movies...not a deal breaker

4) Skype calls with only Audio

5) Skype calls with video

Also, once they upgrade WAK/B with fiber..what does that really mean for the average resident in the vicinity ? What connection charges or upgrade charges will have to be paid?

Thank you :)!

kiwikiwi

455 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1186000 1-Dec-2014 00:30

Well if the Chorus maps tell true you'll be getting an estimate of 1Mbps
Equates to about 128KB/s
Points 1 and 4 will work just fine. Every other point though will be tough or won't work flat out.

I'm sure someone with better tools can provide a much more detailed image.

You can also follow me on twitter here @kiwifortw I do twitch streams every now and then at twitch.tv/kiwiforthewin :)

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hio77

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#1186001 1-Dec-2014 00:32

KiwiBlue: Hi guys,

This thread has been quite useful to understand the situation with regards to internet in and around Bethells Beach. Thank you.

However, it would be really good if we can give a more layman's meaning to all of this. I say this because I am considering relocating to Bethells Beach in the 100-110 Bethells Road area...near the WAK/B point i would say...

What does that really mean for my internet? I understand this can be a subjective question so...perhaps we can list activities that would be easily doable with the slow internet? If my requirement is to :

1) Surf the internet for websites (mostly text)

2) Video streaming lectures, interviews etc usually 1-2hrs in length

3) Downloading movies...not a deal breaker

4) Skype calls with only Audio

5) Skype calls with video

Also, once they upgrade WAK/B with fiber..what does that really mean for the average resident in the vicinity ? What connection charges or upgrade charges will have to be paid? Thank you :)!

to put it simple, once upgraded, Likely vdsl range.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

chevrolux

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#1186020 1-Dec-2014 07:38

hotrok: Great reply from Gerard there. Chorus were very good in getting a quote for me to upgrade the local cabinet. It was of a different order 40k. I tried very hard locally to drum up support for getting the cabinet upgraded. There are fifty homes on the cabinet and myself and another guy put in 10k so we were down to 30k between 47 homes. I got about another 3-4k from others but thats it no one else would contribute!
It really sucked especially as most of these people are living in 700k plus lifestyle blocks and they would not chip in a small amount that would only add more value then the sum of the money they put in by a factor of least 10.

The only option for long term is having community based projects like b4rn project in the rural Uk. I dont know how we could get something like this off the ground here but its very impressive!

You already have enough there for a fixed wireless network!

Build a local wireless network, find a spot to blast in some decent back haul connectivity and all will be good.

MichaelNZ

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#1186029 1-Dec-2014 07:57

chevrolux:

You already have enough there for a fixed wireless network!

Build a local wireless network, find a spot to blast in some decent back haul connectivity and all will be good.

Good luck. You will need it. You have several km's to traverse and a few ridges. In between is lots of high priced lifestyle blocks. You know, owned by the sorts of people who are unlikely to let you locate equipment for free (cos you won't be able to pay them) and don't care anyway because "I'm all right Jack" because they already have ADSL/VDSL from one of the cabinets along Te Henga Road or Scenic Drive.

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hio77

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#1186279 1-Dec-2014 12:08

MichaelNZ:
chevrolux:

You already have enough there for a fixed wireless network!

Build a local wireless network, find a spot to blast in some decent back haul connectivity and all will be good.

Good luck. You will need it. You have several km's to traverse and a few ridges. In between is lots of high priced lifestyle blocks. You know, owned by the sorts of people who are unlikely to let you locate equipment for free (cos you won't be able to pay them) and don't care anyway because "I'm all right Jack" because they already have ADSL/VDSL from one of the cabinets along Te Henga Road or Scenic Drive.

This..

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the WISP in the area considered that when they were looking at our place, We look over most the Bethells valley.

a wireless service imo would still be a challenge Further down into bethells where this is really an issue Where even with the peak of the roof (Pretty high barn-shaped roof..) being well over the treeline And WAK/B sits just down there..

Actually getting a photo from the roof would have been a better example, but I cant say im too keen to climb that!

While it would be easy to cover the terrain where WAK/B is, WAK/J Which isnt being upgraded would still be the common 'issue'

hio77:
KiwiBlue: Hi guys,

This thread has been quite useful to understand the situation with regards to internet in and around Bethells Beach. Thank you.

to put it simple, once upgraded, Likely vdsl range.

I missed making it clear here KiwiBlue, Until the upgrade is complete its a few conklins/ASAMs down there, Have friends down in long road right near there if you want to see what it is like before the upgrade, lets just say you wont be likely streaming at peak.

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MichaelNZ

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#1186288 1-Dec-2014 12:18

hio77:

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the WISP in the area considered that when they were looking at our place, We look over most the Bethells valley.

a wireless service imo would still be a challenge Further down into bethells where this is really an issue Where even with the peak of the roof (Pretty high barn-shaped roof..) being well over the treeline And WAK/B sits just down there..

While it would be easy to cover the terrain where WAK/B is, WAK/J Which isnt being upgraded would still be the common 'issue'

This stuff has already been tried around rural West Auckland at various times, by various people. I have never seen anyone get something successfully of the ground.

I once met someone (while doing business not related to the Internet industry) who had a primo location, view over Auckland and out to the gulf and (as a techo oriented person) would have been amenable to having equipment located on site. He was also the sort of person who I can't imagine him doing it for free or for the community good.

In some parts of the country this model does work. Generally where the property owner (where the tower(s) are located) also has a vested interest in getting broadband and there is people-networks in the area. But this is not the case in rural West Auckland. It's very middle class and not particulally community oriented.

Not saying everyone is like this, but as a whole. Keep in mind for any community WISP network, there will be several km's and a few hops to traverse.

For the people out at Bethells - I'd say forget about any decent Internet and just enjoy the beautiful beach there. Even if you get ADSL2+ or VDSL, you're still behind anyway. Since moving out of Auckland (to a city with ubiquitous UFB) I now think in terms of 100Mbps+.

I still miss that part of West Auckland though. I am seriously considering moving back to Auckland and around that area if one of the places I'd most like to live. If someone knows of a room to rent (flatting) feel free to PM me.

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deadlyllama

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#1186330 1-Dec-2014 13:20

MichaelNZ:

I once met someone (while doing business not related to the Internet industry) who had a primo location, view over Auckland and out to the gulf and (as a techo oriented person) would have been amenable to having equipment located on site. He was also the sort of person who I can't imagine him doing it for free or for the community good.

In some parts of the country this model does work. Generally where the property owner (where the tower(s) are located) also has a vested interest in getting broadband and there is people-networks in the area. But this is not the case in rural West Auckland. It's very middle class and not particulally community oriented.

Not saying everyone is like this, but as a whole. Keep in mind for any community WISP network, there will be several km's and a few hops to traverse.
.

I really don't understand that attitude. No one else is asking for a handout, why are they? Where do they think the money will come from if there isn't any involved in the project, and people are already donating time and equipment? If they don't want to be involved they could just say no.

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