Hawaiki Transpacific cable ready-for-service

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#2060405 22-Jul-2018 13:55

yitz: Interesting that Canterbury and Victoria Wellington universities pulled out of REANNZ at the beginning of the month citing inability to justify benefits vs costs of the service. As I understand Vodafone is the only one in terms of a retail/commodity ISP having traffic flowing over the cable right now.

Interesting. So how would anyone know if there is a difference in performance?

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#2060408 22-Jul-2018 14:13

antoniosk:
yitz: Interesting that Canterbury and Victoria Wellington universities pulled out of REANNZ at the beginning of the month citing inability to justify benefits vs costs of the service. As I understand Vodafone is the only one in terms of a retail/commodity ISP having traffic flowing over the cable right now.

Interesting. So how would anyone know if there is a difference in performance?

As Scotty from Star Trek would say. Yeah cannie change the speed of light.

acjh58

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#2060424 22-Jul-2018 14:56

yitz: Interesting that Canterbury and Victoria Wellington universities pulled out of REANNZ at the beginning of the month citing inability to justify benefits vs costs of the service.

Did they just pull out of the ISP service that REANNZ provides to the universities? My understanding was that REANNZ could re-sell some of the international capacity for those purposes, but if the unies just want domestic style content streaming etc (i.e. not research type data), they're probably better off with a regular ISP.

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#2060580 22-Jul-2018 19:07

acjh58:
I was interested in the comment on "fully diverse subsea route", which I guess means that you can go eitther left or right from the branching node into NZ.

My take on that is it is routed totally diverse from the existing Southern Crossing cable which has both legs via Hawaii (via different points) and NZ landing points (both Tasman & Pacific) just north of Auckland. Of course the land section into Auckland CBD will probably cross one leg of SC somewhere in Auckland but not both.

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#2060588 22-Jul-2018 19:16

sbiddle:

Aredwood: I'm off to Samoa soon, I'll do some speedtests while I'm there. Approx 4.5 years ago, you could only get around 3.5mbit over there.

Hawaiki doesn't go to Samoa, only American Samoa.

I was actually in Samoa last month specifically to look at connectivity for a project and met with Digicel and Bluesky. The new SSCC cable is now live between Samoa and Fiji where is connects with Southern Cross. Digicel are now using this for all connectivity rather than their previous O3b satellite backhaul so they have significantly more bandwidth now available. There is a very old cable that connects Samoa with American Samoa, but it's now considered EOL and the reason SSCC was built.

Bluesky were still only using the new cable for download at that point as they hadn't completed their migration.

It's interesting to look at the approaches between the two providers with Digicel focusing on transit in Sydney with all peering there. Bluesky are still focused on transit to the mainland US with all peering there as transit is cheaper, but it means connectivity to all the major CDN nodes is significantly higher.

it honestly wasn't too bad when i was over there.. almost a year back now!

had a solid 40/5ish over LTE (no CA)

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atomeara

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#2060660 22-Jul-2018 20:23

yitz: Interesting that Canterbury and Victoria Wellington universities pulled out of REANNZ at the beginning of the month citing inability to justify benefits vs costs of the service. As I understand Vodafone is the only one in terms of a retail/commodity ISP having traffic flowing over the cable right now.

Interesting! Where did you hear about that? Is there any media on it?

May explain why I have seen a lot of PR from them lately, plugging themselves, I was confused why, when they are restricted to certain research and education orgs.

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#2060672 22-Jul-2018 20:52

atomeara:

yitz: Interesting that Canterbury and Victoria Wellington universities pulled out of REANNZ at the beginning of the month citing inability to justify benefits vs costs of the service. As I understand Vodafone is the only one in terms of a retail/commodity ISP having traffic flowing over the cable right now.

Interesting! Where did you hear about that? Is there any media on it?

May explain why I have seen a lot of PR from them lately, plugging themselves, I was confused why, when they are restricted to certain research and education orgs.

Plenty of media, it was in the news last week or the week before when it was announced.

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#2060698 22-Jul-2018 22:06

BarTender:
antoniosk:

yitz: Interesting that Canterbury and Victoria Wellington universities pulled out of REANNZ at the beginning of the month citing inability to justify benefits vs costs of the service. As I understand Vodafone is the only one in terms of a retail/commodity ISP having traffic flowing over the cable right now.

Interesting. So how would anyone know if there is a difference in performance?

As Scotty from Star Trek would say. Yeah cannie change the speed of light.

Guess not. i did do a speedtest to one of fibre companies in portland and got 650mbps down and 5mbps up, with 170ms latency....

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#2060715 22-Jul-2018 22:43

ld anyone know if there is a difference in performance?

Well, its not exactly a straight line between NZ and somewhere useful in the USA (Oregon, how odd!), if anyone has actual RTT times to LA please post. I'm struggling to see how its going to be anything but slower RTT than Auckland to LA on SX.

noroad

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#2060721 22-Jul-2018 23:00

noroad:

Well, its not exactly a straight line between NZ and somewhere useful in the USA (Oregon, how odd!), if anyone has actual RTT times to LA please post. I'm struggling to see how its going to be anything but slower RTT than Auckland to LA on SX.

Hmm, to answer my own question they are quoting 127ms from Mangawhai to Oregon so, add on a couple of ms to get to Auckland, then about another 20ms to get from Oregon to Los Angeles where all the useful content starts and you are at about 150ms. If this is the case then it should not be too bad but it certainly does not compete with the real world 124ms I see via SX currently. Looks like a good backup path, but primary only if its cheap I would suggest. Before anyone mentions it yes, it does make a difference for anything time sensitive like gaming. Interestingly SX is also still fastest to AU, I see real world 23ms via SC and 25ms via TGA. Hawaiki is quoting 33ms Mangawhai to Sydney, so lets say 35. So SC still clearly wins in the lowest latency game, she's just getting on in age a bit.

http://hawaikicable.co.nz/?products

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#2060723 22-Jul-2018 23:06

chevrolux:

My understanding was that this cable isn't diverse? I thought Southern Cross were still the only ones with redundancy.

But also... wake me up when something gets done about national transit costs - because they still suck!

Edit: It is cool to see the Islands getting connected though.

Its not, and this is my major issue with this cable. If I buy a bunch of USA capacity on this cable, I still need to buy SC for diversity. Also, seeing as its also going to a place in the USA that does not actually have major internet exchanges I also need to buy backhaul to California. As excited as I am about a new cable system, I'm just not feeling the love for this cable right now unless SC fails or its really cheap.

noroad

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#2060724 22-Jul-2018 23:08

noroad:

chevrolux:

My understanding was that this cable isn't diverse? I thought Southern Cross were still the only ones with redundancy.

But also... wake me up when something gets done about national transit costs - because they still suck!

Edit: It is cool to see the Islands getting connected though.

Its not, and this is my major issue with this cable. If I buy a bunch of USA capacity on this cable, I still need to buy SC for diversity. Also, seeing as its also going to a place in the USA that does not actually have major internet exchanges I also need to buy backhaul to California. As excited as I am about a new cable system, I'm just not feeling the love for this cable right now unless SC fails or its really cheap.

Unless of course I ("I" being a customer on this cable) just take the risk that this cable will never fail and, well you get the idea.

hio77

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#2060725 22-Jul-2018 23:11

noroad:

http://hawaikicable.co.nz/?products

That blinking text.... I'm out.

noroad:

Unless of course I ("I" being a customer on this cable) just take the risk that this cable will never fail and, well you get the idea.

shhhh don't give them that idea!

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noroad

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#2060863 23-Jul-2018 10:36

hio77:

shhhh don't give them that idea!

**cough**

Vodafone technology director Tony Baird said it had lit up its optical fibre on Hawaiki Cable and would use it as its primary conduit for internet traffic between New Zealand and the United States, with the Southern Cross Cable – half-owned by Spark – providing back-up "We will keep a bit on Southern Cross but not a lot, and will be moving traffic over during the remainder of the calendar year."

noroad

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#2060879 23-Jul-2018 10:55

noroad:

Hmm, to answer my own question they are quoting 127ms from Mangawhai to Oregon so, add on a couple of ms to get to Auckland, then about another 20ms to get from Oregon to Los Angeles where all the useful content starts and you are at about 150ms.

Actually, My numbers are a bit harsh there, if you can get protected backhaul to Palo Alto / San Jose at an affordable cost then it should only be a few ms, so lets say about 135-140ms rtt which is pretty good against the current SC path at 124ms real world.

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