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cyril7

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#2474405 1-May-2020 09:57

Mehrts:

Snip...........

I think too many people get caught up on the specs of the cable and then say that "but you can't have gigabit over cat 5/5e 🙄" Well you can.. It all depends on the distance you're wanting to go! I mean hell, you'd be surprised to see just how much crap Ethernet can handle before you start losing packets!

Snip

Hi, just to clarify there, Cat5 was not originally built for GigE, infact GigE was not around when it was created, so only had to achieve the bandwidth performance of FE. When GigE was created Cat5 was found lacking on longer runs, primarily cross talk between the pairs started to be marginal once you got over around 70m, but that did depend a lot on the exact build of a specific cable. Therefore manufactures started to build what was originally called Cat5 Enhanced, as in the early days of GigE there still was no mandated standard for 5e so several manufactures called their GigE compliant cable Cat5 Enhanced, this was latter ratified and standardised as Cat5e.

The only difference between Cat5 and 5e is an slight increase in twist rate that improved cross talk related parameters at 100MHz (which is the top of the spectrum spec for GigE signalling).

So just to clarify, Cat5e was and is rated and built to carry GigE, it was Cat5 that has not been on the market in over 20yrs that was only rated for FE however would readily do GigE to around 70m.

Edit: the new NBaseT standards that include 2.5Gigand 5Gig are modifications of the 10G copper signalling method, however at 1/4 and 1/2 the bandwidth. These two new signalling rates were created to overcome the issues of using both Cat5e and Cat6 with 10G, and to enable the reuse of existing cat5e/6 cabling infrastructure beyond GigE, in particular to support 802.11acWave2 APs that can in theory achieve greater than GigE throughput.

Cat5e will achieve 2.5 and 5G at full 100m channel length, and may support 10G to around 20m depending on individual cable build and installation. Cat6 will support 2.5 and 5G to full channel length and is typically found to support 10G to around 55m again dependant on specific cable build and installation. Typically 10G fails due to alien cross talk, so if you only have one or two runs in long close bundling, then many of the issues become irrelivent.

Cyril

Mehrts

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#2474408 1-May-2020 10:04

I'm not the one saying you can't run gigabit over the lower spec stuff. I'm well aware of the standards.

I was merely saying that in the real world, you can get surprising results with less than ideal gear.

cyril7

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#2474412 1-May-2020 10:08

Yep as you say its pretty robust stuff, takes a lot to create packet loss. I have found giving heavy electrical machinery and motor drive electronics a wide birth is a good place to start.

Cyril

nztim

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#2474416 1-May-2020 10:14

Mehrts:

My recommendation when people ask about network cabling in house installs is: If your house is already wired with cat 5e, I wouldn't bother replacing it because it will do the job just fine. But for a new build, now is the time to future-proof with a more modern spec cable.

That's the angle I was coming from (and just poking a bit of stick about being c5e)

No way would I replace the c5e that is at my mothers place, but at the same time when I brought my house, I wasn't going to do a new install with c5e

I will be, over time, as money permits and for no other reason other than I "like the look of them" replace all the clipsal plates with PDL Iconic series

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

cyril7

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#2474422 1-May-2020 10:26

Yep as Sam mentioned, the panel was in a box of new and unused stuff I had from way back, along with two or three boxs of Cat5e, both indoor and outdoor was required as its a 3 story house, and access to the top floor was iimpossible without going outside. That said I managed to hide the outdoor cabling in the macracapa cladding pretty well, its near impossible to see.

Cyril

cyril7

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#2476173 4-May-2020 10:40

OK, so a futher note to this, so as mentioned, the original phone line connects from the same southern boundry as the fibre, but the fibre comes up my new conduit run on the south side of the property to the main house garage, then across the garage internally (open joists etc) to the hub.

The copper on the other hand goes via a 20mm duct to the cottage (6-8m off the street) to a standard copper ETP, there it connects to the cottage wiring and also catches an 049 to the northern side of the section under the drive and large garden beds. This run is directly dug in, there also is an RG6 run with this, this runs under further garden beds and appears on the northern side of the main house garage, this run is approx 25m. The RG6 has never been terminated or used. The 049 did bring VDSL to the main house till fibre arrived.

The current cottage tenant is on Spark wireless, she is soon to move on and it is intended to rent out the cottage again as well as offer it on booking.com, we also have an apartment on the beach front under the main house that is on booking.com. But I need to get a data feed back to the cottage to offer guest wireless.

So I was looking at purchasing a pair of these to run over the RG6, however before I did that I thought I would see if I could get better than 10Mb/s out of the 049. I have always thought you could possible get fast ethernet over a run of cat3/phone pair if the conditions were right. So I terminated things off and connected it to the hub patch panel via a further 10m of cat5e and to a port on the Mikrotik router, at the cottage end I connected a small managed switch, that way I could monitor for Rx errors and dropped packet.

Before testing I did use my Fluke CableIQ to test the cable, I tested it a few times, most came back as 10Mb/s compliant, but two came back as 100Mb/s, so clearly its marginal, my guess is due to crosstalk as the 049 is has only limited twist rate.

Then I connected up my laptop to the cottage switch and both the router and switch were connected at 100Mb/s full duplex. I then run multple Iperf sessions between the two ends and between two laptops at each end (four in total) to try emulate full duplex traffic to see if the cross talk actually impacted on throughput. Well after several hours of testing still no reported errors or dropped packets at each end :)

Cyril

nztim

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#2476206 4-May-2020 11:30

cyril7:

So I was looking at purchasing a pair of these to run over the RG6, however before I did that I thought I would see if I could get better than 10Mb/s out of the 049. I have always thought you could possible get fast ethernet over a run of cat3/phone pair if the conditions were right. So I terminated things off and connected it to the hub patch panel via a further 10m of cat5e and to a port on the Mikrotik router, at the cottage end I connected a small managed switch, that way I could monitor for Rx errors and dropped packet.

Then I connected up my laptop to the cottage switch and both the router and switch were connected at 100Mb/s full duplex. I then run multple Iperf sessions between the two ends and between two laptops at each end (four in total) to try emulate full duplex traffic to see if the cross talk actually impacted on throughput. Well after several hours of testing still no reported errors or dropped packets at each end :)

Cyril

That is pretty cool, can I ask was it the 3 pair or 2 pair telephone cable?

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cyril7

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#2476208 4-May-2020 11:31

Hi, the more modern white/blue red/black two pair, which is probably a key factor, as this does have a modest level of twist, but not as much as cat5.

Cyril

nztim

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#2476328 4-May-2020 14:33

cyril7:

Hi, the more modern white/blue red/black two pair, which is probably a key factor, as this does have a modest level of twist, but not as much as cat5.

Cyril

That will play a part, the old grey cables for the late 80s early 90s (red, white, blue, green, orange, black) isn't even twisted at all as has been a bugbear with DSL issues

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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