Canada bringing in data caps

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#433759 1-Feb-2011 16:26

Ragnor:
Talkiet:
l43a2: wow, thats crazy, Canada is going backwards..

If by backwards, you mean towards a pricing model that reflects the cost model and attempts to reconcile the phenomenal difference between heavy and light users without hugely loading the pricing for light users then yes, I agree, Canada is going backwards.

N :-)

While I do feel you have a point about light users subsidising heavy users, I doubt you will see reduced prices for light users..

This seems to be about (in the US anyway) increasing prices for heavy users to a level that hampers use of disruptive services like Netflix (see recent Comcast v Level 3 peering disputes).

The general aim being to preserve legacy content based business for cable companies (Comcast, Time Warner or in Canada: Rodgers etc).

Nah, It's pretty simple... In NZ the expensive and scarce resource is (essentially) international connectivity, while in Canada (and US to some extent) the scarce resource is the much fatter access network.

They're both still an investment and performance bottleneck, just quite different in scale.

The difference in cap sizes between here and there can be partially explained by the difference in the size of the bottleneck.

Someone once said "Never ascribe to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity" and I'd like to propose an alternative "Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by basic network engineering and cost principles"

Cheers - N :-)

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

etl

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#433762 1-Feb-2011 16:27

According the interesting article on DownToTheWire Feritism supplied. NASA was paying for half of our connection costs.
If this was the case, were they also subsidising the costs for everyone else as well?
Did the data actually cost anything at all, or was it just a fee invoiced to all countries using their satellites?

This is all interesting stuff, but the answers only supply me with more questions.

mad01

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#433788 1-Feb-2011 16:54

michaeln: It is worse than the plans here, at least for overage.

C$1.90/GB is NZ$2.46/GB (at today's FOREX rate) which compares unfavorably to, for example, TCL's $1.48/GB overage (167%). Especially bearing in mind that NZ has to bear the very real costs of that expensive piece of wet string known as Southern Cross, whereas Canada, I would have thought, should have much lower infrastructure costs.

Canada still has mostly cheaper rates than here. I couldn't believe the cost of Internet/TV/phone when I got here.

As a matter of comparison, TCL 60GB=95NZD and Videotron 60GB=55CAD. Even after adding exchange rates and taxes it's cheaper. And if you compare higher data plans it gets even better - for 120GB it's 82CAD vs 209NZD (with twice the speed).

As far as I understand, the ruling will allow the big players to charge for data to the smaller ISPs.

freitasm

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#433796 1-Feb-2011 17:06

etl: According the interesting article on DownToTheWire Feritism supplied. NASA was paying for half of our connection costs.

Remember that was the case back when those first connections were established. Obviously NASA is not paying for half or our connection costs now (and haven't been for a while).

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#433798 1-Feb-2011 17:09

Talkiet:
Someone once said "Never ascribe to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity" and I'd like to propose an alternative "Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by basic network engineering and cost principles"

Cheers - N :-)

Hanlon's Razor.

You are proposing Neil's Razor? Actually, I suspect RFC 1925, Rule #4 pre-dates you

michaeln

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#433802 1-Feb-2011 17:20

etl: According the interesting article on DownToTheWire Feritism supplied. NASA was paying for half of our connection costs.
If this was the case, were they also subsidising the costs for everyone else as well?
Did the data actually cost anything at all, or was it just a fee invoiced to all countries using their satellites?

The links were terrestrial, not satellite, and the "half" arose from the practice of buying half-circuits. I.e., NASA paid for their end and we paid for our end. Now we have the privilege of paying for connecting to the US, and paying for the US to connect to us.

Yes, the costs were real.

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lokhor

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#433815 1-Feb-2011 18:08

Where does the majority of bandwidth cost come from in NZ?

All comments are my own opinion, and not that of my employer unless explicitly stated.

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#433978 1-Feb-2011 22:10

freitasm: For those who don't know the history, read "The poison from New Zealand".

This is a brilliant website. Not sure about the year 2007 though

________

Antoniosk

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#434006 1-Feb-2011 23:13

lokhor: Where does the majority of bandwidth cost come from in NZ?

I believe it is something like 70% international via the southern cross and 30% national backhaul for end users. Someone here that works for an ISP will be able to confirm.

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Ragnor

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#434498 2-Feb-2011 21:07

Talkiet:

Nah, It's pretty simple... In NZ the expensive and scarce resource is (essentially) international connectivity, while in Canada (and US to some extent) the scarce resource is the much fatter access network.

Artificial scarcity of domestic transit caused by lightly (at the time in NZ and currently in the US/CA) regulated ISP's that have last mile monopoly opting out of peering, now where have I seen that before....

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#434736 3-Feb-2011 11:38

I just did a quick google and cant find anything on it, but I distinctly remember reading something a few years ago when US ISP's first started trialling data caps. It was along the lines that Telecom had introduced the whole concept of data caps to the US telcos's via its TNZI business, and was used as a consultancy by them as they brought in the caps.

Anyone else know anything about it?

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#435082 3-Feb-2011 22:38

lokhor: Check out this article:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/01/canada-gets-first-bitter-dose-of-metered-internet-billing.ars?comments=1#comments-bar

Sounds worse than internet plans here!

Well that didn't last long:

A controversial CRTC decision that effectively imposed usage-based Internet billing on small service providers will be reversed, the Toronto Star has learned.
“The CRTC should be under no illusion — the Prime Minister and minister of Industry will reverse this decision unless the CRTC does it itself,” a senior Conservative government official said Wednesday.

“If they don’t reconsider we will reverse their decision.”

lokhor

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#435227 4-Feb-2011 11:11

Damn I was hoping Canada would be in the same boat as us. now we are all alone in our cappedness :(

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michaeln

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#435231 4-Feb-2011 11:23

lokhor: Damn I was hoping Canada would be in the same boat as us. now we are all alone in our cappedness :(

Rejoice then, since Verizon has listened to your plea.

wellygary

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#435240 4-Feb-2011 11:41

lokhor: Damn I was hoping Canada would be in the same boat as us. now we are all alone in our cappedness :(

I don't think that This is not the end of , While the CTC is able to be federally overruled, Caps (UBB) is being driven by Bell, and they are the major network, ( and wholesalers for many smaller ISPs, This fight is not over yet...

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