VDSL Performance & Tuning

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Lizard Networks

#1480085 27-Jan-2016 17:32

SamF: Hmm, I just realised that I might be able to get a free Fritz from 2Degrees as I technically qualify as a 'New' customer from Snap... What model are they supplying these days? 7490? What are they like sync speed wise & for SNRM tweaking? Isn't there some limitations with the newer models?

the 7490 goes back to a Lantiq, drop down from running an Ikanos Fusiv Vx180 in the 7390s - Yeah, i mistakenly confused what chipset was in the 7390s in particular before!

7340, 7360 both also run the Lantiq.

Tweaking should be possible technically.

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SamF

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#1480138 27-Jan-2016 18:34

Hmm, I'm currently using a 7340, which may run the same Ikanos chipset as the 7390 (based on the 1 internet reference I can find for this!), so I'm not too keen to go to a router with a slower chipset, even if it is free...

Is anyone running a Broadcom chipset router on an Ikanos DSLAM?

Jase2985

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#1480221 27-Jan-2016 19:55

ive got an NF8AC and im connecting to an Ikanos DSLAM. im currently connected at 70/27

i believe its a Boardcom chipset

SamF

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#1480224 27-Jan-2016 20:03

Jase2985:

ive got an NF8AC and im connecting to an Ikanos DSLAM. im currently connected at 70/27

i believe its a Boardcom chipset

Got any comparisons with other routers on that line? Sounds like you're pretty close to the cabinet.

Jase2985

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#1480225 27-Jan-2016 20:08

less than 100m :)

no comparisons, i do have a TG589vn here but i havent bothered to check/compare

Lally

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#1513425 15-Mar-2016 07:25

My Fritz had a resync on the 7th, stats below, is there any particular reason for the low SNR?

Throughput has increased and I'm seeing a lot more errors due to the SNR being low, should I do a restart for something a bit more stable?

DSL Information

Current Throughput 53164 kbit/s (receive direction) 10875 kbit/s (send direction)

Line attenuation 18 dB (receive direction) 18 dB (send direction)

Signal-to-noise ratio 5 dB (receive direction) 5 dB (send direction)

DSL version 1.100.133.21

DSL status active since 07:14:21:02

DSL Central Exchange Ikanos 1.1

Athlonite

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#1513658 15-Mar-2016 12:37

Lally:

Line attenuation 18 dB (receive direction) 18 dB (send direction)

See this is what irks the shizzel out of me, connections with higher attenuation getting much better sync speeds than I can achieve

my Line Attenuation: 16.5dB up and down yet refuses to sync at more the 40/7.9Mbps ( I assume it's an Ikanos cabinet as the NF4V doesn't say what it is) also no way to tune snr in these NF4V modems unless I seriously look into learning terminal commands and even then I'm unsure of what can and can not be done to the NF4V that way

Downstream

Upstream

Line Coding(Trellis):

SNR Margin (0.1 dB):

Attenuation (0.1 dB):

160

Output Power (0.1 dBm):

153

-53

Attainable Rate (Kbps):

40956

6960

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Lally

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#1513705 15-Mar-2016 13:44

lol, to be fair when I was at 8/9db snr, sync was only @ 47/9 , and it took me a while to achieve that.

Was @ 21/10 before I removed all the joins to the phone jacks about the house and 998 came along.

miked

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#1519431 25-Mar-2016 05:04

I'm new to this amazing thread full of useful info... and I'm looking for some opinions from you experts!

I've got Naked VDSL from Voyager on a Fritz 7390 when we moved house in late Dec.

Demarc point is on the gable from overhead wire. From there to my network enclosure is a new cat6 run to a VDSL socket installed by Chorus when they installed the connection in Dec. There are no other wires out from demarc point (no old phone wires in house at all). Unfortunately the Chorus installer in Dec had forgotten to bring his tester, so the line was never checked properly at time of install. Typical Sync speeds have been about 13Mbs/4Mbs since install.

January - Problems Begin

Just a couple of weeks into the house, I suffered horrendous outages which lasted through most of Jan (roughly 10 re-syncs a day), but since I was away most of the month, I was unable to do anything about it. When I got back at end of Jan, Voyager were going to send Chorus round, but out-of-the-blue my connection suddenly hit 21Mbs/7Mbs for a few days and the line was mostly stable, so they cancelled Chorus coming and decided that Chorus must have fixed it as part of fixing someone else's connection.

Feb and Early March - Relatively Stable

Into Feb and early March, the speeds settled back to 13Mbs/4Mbs with an average of 2 re-syncs per day on my Fritzbox.

Last 2 weeks - Rollercoaster ride of slow uploads and outages

About 2 weeks ago, I had more major outages (line unable to sync for 12 hours a day all weekend - 10-ish re-syncs per day). Reported it to Voyager again who agreed to escalate it to Chorus, however again this was just as the line re-stablised. In the meantime Voyager advised me that the report was coming back "CPE Failing" and strongly recommended I try an alternative router first so I didn't get charged for a Chorus callout. Wary of being charged, I hunted out a loan router (Spark HG630b). By the time I installed the router, I was already back to my "normal" (13Mbs/4Mbs with 2 re-syncs per day on Fritzbox). Loan router held similar sync speeds, but had no outages for a few days. The following weekend, the line ducked out again and upload speed dropped right down to 66kbs whilst having 14Mbs download.

(I could watch streaming HD video no problem, but couldn't rewind to a new segment or it would take 5 mins to work out where it was!).

With loan router also hitting as low as 60kbs upload (albeit with no loss of sync), I re-escalated it to Chorus having proved there was a definitely a line fault.

Chorus fix the line - or have they?

So Chorus have now been out, and the guy says he found and fixed the fault by re-joining two wires at the 2nd pole in the street (he was only getting 88kbs upload in his tests too before that). Loan HG630b synced up at 28Mbs/8Mbs at initial test, however I was keen to put the Fritz box back in as the other unit needs to be returned.

Fritz box now syncs at around 16Mbs/5.4Mbs (mostly slightly higher upload than this picture)

(albeit I am deliberately running it in "max stability" for every setting and don't want to change anything right now whilst they monitor the line).

but even then is still having frequent drop outs...

and intermittent signal quality drops, with error spikes matching the sync drop-outs

So, given the history, and the intermittent crazy sync speeds over an extended period, and the Chorus guy finding and fixing something, there must definitely have been a line fault which is at least partially fixed now. The question is whether it is fully fixed, or still "iffy"? (don't you just love intermittent faults!). Also it is hard to know whether the Fritz is also a bit faulty too? (Is it falsely reporting the signal quality drops because it is failing, or is just better at telling me how poor and intermittent my connection still is?). I bought it second hand of TradeMe, so it might have problems possibly?

I know the HG630b I've borrowed appears to be more stable than my Fritzbox7390 (drops out less on a marginal line, but does still drop out), but I have to give the HG630b back to its owner. So should I be looking for a new Fritzbox (maybe the newer 7490?) to test on my line? Or should I look for something like the HG659? Or another HG630b? Or should I hold out for Chorus to fix the line better? (I am only 200m from the cabinet, so there should theoretically be more potential in the wires yet unless they are really ropey!).

Thanks for reading

hio77

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#1519523 25-Mar-2016 10:18

the dslam shouldnt have even allowed such a low upstream rate.

Based off your graphs ild question if they happen to align with large gusts of wind, rain etc. Looks somewhat like a loose joint.

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miked

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#1519568 25-Mar-2016 11:42

60kbs Upload - spectrum

Yeah that mystified me too. When it was down at 60kbs upload, the whole middle chunk of green on the spectrum graph was missing, so it only had the green at the very left and nowhere else.

Head-scratching moment when Chorus guy was done

The Chorus guy kept saying we shouldn't have been allowed VDSL up here because the network is too old! (but Fibre has been pushed back again, and isn't now due until June 2019).

The neighbour also gets intermittent outages on his VDSL connection.

The slightly fishy thing was when the Chorus guy had fixed it, he told me all the lines themselves were fine, so he just had to re-join them up the 2nd pole to fix the problem. So I told him the neighbour had the same problem and ask Mr Chorus if it was likely to be a problem in the same place. His reply was "to be honest, tell him not to report it because we are running out of spare pairs". That doesn't compute with his previous answer to me, that he just re-terminated my existing pairs.

What concerns me particularly about that is that earlier in the day I'd told him I'd heard that in the UK phone techs regularly bump problem pairs onto a neighbour because typically they are already out of spare pairs so they want a quick fix. (I'm sure the same probably happens here too).

So I'm a bit unsure whether he actually just re-terminated mine, because otherwise why would he advise me to tell the neighbour he is best to not report a fault? (very similar presenting problem to mine). If it was just re-termination surely the neighbour with the same problem could have the same fix (needing no spare pair)?

Something doesn't stack up. Earlier when discussing likely solutions, he said if it turned out to be one of the wires at fault he'd have to bump it to the lines team as finding spares was tricky up here! (like maybe they have to swap pairs with a neighbour?)

Surely if someone has a fault Chorua should fix it. If the wires are old and need replacing, then they should do that. Feels like they don't want to fix an underlying problem, but make us wait until fibre arrives in 3.5 years.

If the tech had his way, I'm in no doubt he'd "solve it" by bumping us all down to ADSL2 for the next 3.5 years, as he told me VDSL shouldn't be being provisioned up here.

If this was a good new line, how fast should I get on a 200m line to cab (assuming it doesn't wander around the houses)?

Jase2985

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#1519640 25-Mar-2016 14:13

the problem is chorus dont want to sink tonnes of money into fixing ADSL/VDSL faults if those people are getting fibre in the current scheduled rollout, as its just wasting money in their eyes.

on a 200m line you should be sitting at between 50 and 70mbps down and 10+mbps up.

miked

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#1519747 25-Mar-2016 17:27

Thanks. I guessed the speed should be something like that.

Of course it comes to economics and return on investment, but if this area has had poor lines for years and they know all about it, why haven't they already fixed it, or why haven't they scheduled the fibre roll-out for sooner.

UFB used to have a go live of June 2015, which was pushed back to June 2016, then June 2017, and now June 2019!

hio77

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#1519751 25-Mar-2016 17:34

i had a chorus tech argue with me that my line was too long at one point.

The fault was a two part issue, Firstly Riptie cable was used for the phoneline. This was not capable of carrying vdsl very well at all.

Secondly in the time i carefully drove my fritz from the old flat to the new one it somehow? went odd and had to be replaced.

my house was literally across the road from the cabinet, 140M of actual cable IIRC. I was not impresssed at all with the chorus tech and it was resolved a week later after i when into all the technical details and further went to insist he ran a manual prequal, calculate the distance and all. Surprise suprise the cabinet that he drove to every time was actually fully capable of providing vdsl to me simply needing the cable sorted.

That connection ended up being 70/10 Max for 997 profile.

Ild follow it up, lots of line tests, lots of stat collection

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

hotrok

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#1545620 2-May-2016 21:40

Hi there

I live rural about 400m or so from the cabinet and the cabinet is being upgraded this month from adsl1 to vdsl capable (about friggin time). Any idea what sort of speeds I can get with VDSL at that distance. Is there any way to turn off interleaving with vdsl to improve ping? My line stats as follows. Cheers.

Link Information

Uptime:

0 days, 5:30:17

DSL Type:

ITU-T G.992.1

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:

640 / 8.128

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]:

103,76 / 152,38

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:

11,9 / 11,8

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:

5,0 / 5,5

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:

12,0 / 21,1

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote):

TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote):

BDCM / ALCB

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):

0 / -

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):

0 / -

Loss of Power (Local/Remote):

0 / -

Loss of Link (Remote):

Error Seconds (Local/Remote):

1 / -

FEC Errors (Up/Down):

0 / 0

CRC Errors (Up/Down):

2 / 1

HEC Errors (Up/Down):

- / 1 / 2

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