Telecom's conklin/mini dslams - false advertising?

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#52543 15-Nov-2006 23:59

cokemaster: Do you consider the conklin to be an exchange (or part of) ?

Its part of telecoms plant, but its no more part of the exchange then a 0+2 strapped to a powerpole is.

I also cant find 7.6 megs mentioned anywhere on the telecom page, so my statement that the page is correct still stands.

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Fraktul

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#52544 16-Nov-2006 00:00

Oh really, here I was thinking it was actually the copper line back into the phone exchange! Haha how wrong I have been, your line speed actually includes your 'line' and your DSLAM backhaul.

I can see how one could be easily duped into thinking the DLSAM is part of the exchange, it being:

A: In the exchange building/cabinet.
B: Connected to the local loop.

Now things are clear however!

I guess since the speed of my line, since it includes the egress/ingress backhaul from the DSLAM now, is actually 155mbps with my DSLAM on SDH backhaul here.

You must now excuse me while I rush off and run some speed tests to verify my new 155mbps line speed!

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#52546 16-Nov-2006 00:06

Fraktul: ...
I can see how one could be easily duped into thinking the DLSAM is part of the exchange, it being:

A: In the exchange building/cabinet.
...

Going back to the previous post I was referring to conklins.

They are sometimes installed in roadside cabinets. That was the situation in which I was referring to in my previous posts. :)

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richms

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#52547 16-Nov-2006 00:07

Yeah, except the whole idea of the conklins is that they are to provide dsl to clusters of people that are at a great distance from the phone exchange or else are on nearby pcm gear which prevents them from getting dsl since they do not have an analog circuit all the way back to the exchange.

If you would prefer, I am sure that telecom would be all too happy to pull it out and leave you back on dialup, People on fibre to subdivisions had to wait years to get them put in.

Richard rich.ms

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#52548 16-Nov-2006 00:09

bradstewart: Because as you know xtra never promised 7.6Mbps... Have you got that yet?

Hang on a second Brad, let's have a REASONED debate here:

You're right, I kind of shot myself in the foot there. However...

I still think that where a customer's modem shows a connect speed of 7.6Mbps (or indeed anything above 2Mbps), they have a right to expect that connection speed to exist ALL THE WAY BACK TO THEIR EXCHANGE.

You can't expect Joe Public to know about Conklin boxes. He/she will just expect (and I think legitimately so), that: Speed reported by their modem = their connection speed to the exchange.

If that's not the case, then Telecom should make people aware of this fact via more explicit T&Cs on their web site.

Now I suppose someone will post the URL pointing to those exact details on Telecom's site...

If so, that's great, but if those details aren't present, then they really ought to be.

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#52549 16-Nov-2006 00:12

richms:
cokemaster: Do you consider the conklin to be an exchange (or part of) ?

Its part of telecoms plant, but its no more part of the exchange then a 0+2 strapped to a powerpole is.

I also cant find 7.6 megs mentioned anywhere on the telecom page, so my statement that the page is correct still stands.

Err so if you don't consider plant in the exchange building part of the exchange then what does the exchange consist of? Just the building? I'm unsure of how to measure line speed to the entity of 'a building' if that entity definition does not consist of plant in the building.....perhaps if the DSLAM was incorporated into the build some how? Put it on hinges and use it as a door?

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#52550 16-Nov-2006 00:17

Grant17: Hang on a second Brad, let's have a REASONED debate here:

This is reasoned debate...

You're right, I kind of shot myself in the foot there. However...

Thank you

I still think that where a customer's modem shows a connect speed of 7.6Mbps (or indeed anything above 2Mbps), they have a right to expect that connection speed to exist ALL THE WAY BACK TO THEIR EXCHANGE.

You can't expect Joe Public to know about Conklin boxes. He/she will just expect (and I think legitimately so), that: Speed reported by their modem = their connection speed to the exchange.

First, not all modems actually report line speed. Mine doesn't. Also Joe Public probably dooesn't even know how to log into his modems to check. Just because my modem shows a speed of 5Mbps for example doesn't mean I will get that nor is it necescarily resonable to expect that.

If that's not the case, then Telecom should make people aware of this fact via more explicit T&Cs on their web site.

Now I suppose someone will post the URL pointing to those exact details on Telecom's site...

If so, that's great, but if those details aren't present, then they really ought to be.

Hmm let me see what my trolling can dig up

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richms

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#52551 16-Nov-2006 00:19

The conklin dslams are located away from the exchange with the 2 meg circuit back to the exchange. It is clear that the conklins are not in the exchange building. There may be some weird cases of old small exchanges in small towns that dont warrent a real dslam in them, but a majority are stuck in subdivisions and small clusters of people in the middle of nowhere. They are not in any building designated as an exchange, and in a lot of cases there is nothing else there other then a whole lot of wires joined together. I thought this was made clear in my previous posts about this and don't appreciate a facetious reply relating to hinges.

Back when I had dialtone from a 0+2, the performance was impaired by the equipment installed to provide the service to me. The conklin dslam is exactly the same, its to extend services to those that would otherwise be unable to get it. It has limitations and those limitations are present between the user and the building that is commonly known as the "exchange"

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grant_k

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#52552 16-Nov-2006 00:29

richms: The conklin dslam is exactly the same, its to extend services to those that would otherwise be unable to get it. It has limitations and those limitations are present between the user and the building that is commonly known as the "exchange"

Thank you Richms, that's an excellent explanation.

It kind of bears out what the OP of this thread was saying i.e.

1) Limitations are present between the user and the building that is commonly known as the "exchange".

2) Said user was not made aware of them even though he read Telecom's "Fine Print" carefully.

Maybe Brad can dig up the relevant Fine Print with his trolling...

Cheers everyone,

This has been (for the most part) a good and informative discussion

Fraktul

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#52554 16-Nov-2006 00:41

Yes I concede that also, there is very few instances where a conklin is in an exchange as you point out.

As for my statement being facetious, apologies but given the lack of clarity in your previous post and the seeming absurdity of what your were saying this was warranted in all good humor.

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#52555 16-Nov-2006 00:47

I think ideally that someone who would be on a conklin needs to enquire with telecom what their line speed will be if they get dsl installed. If at that point they fail to mention the 2 meg limitation and give the sync speed, then there would be a definate possibility of them having something to answer for.

Alternativly, has anyone called telecom and asked them what their line speed is to see what they say regards to them having a conklin line with the limitations? Perhaps someone who suffers from it should make enquirys to telecom and document the response so that action can be taken if they are misleading about it? Untill we know the response its all just hypothetical since they may just say 2 megs, so you have nothing to complain about, whereas if they promise a huge speed and then when its hooked up only deliver 2 megs, then there is.

Food for thought etc etc, im going to sleep now :)

Richard rich.ms

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#52556 16-Nov-2006 00:47

Grant17: Maybe Brad can dig up the relevant Fine Print with his trolling...

Cheers everyone,

This has been (for the most part) a good and informative discussion

I agree with Grant17 (something is wrong here) this has been a good discussion. The way Geekzone always has been without all the Go Large trolling recently. As for my trolling... That wil have to wait till tomorrow as my Apache isn't that great for browsing.

I do know that Telecom/xtra are supposed to alert customers when they join that they are on a Conklin... Obviously didn't happen this time. Mistakes happen and I'm sure there weren't any evil intentions there on Telecoms part.

Anyway, keep up the good discussion folks. Its a pleasant change after the past couple of weeks.

grant_k

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#52557 16-Nov-2006 00:52

bradstewart: I agree with Grant17 (something is wrong here)

Yes, be careful Brad, you never know where it might get you...

.

And I saw on another thread today that you've switched to Orcon

, what is the world coming to?

Sleep well everybody!

exportgoldman

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#52559 16-Nov-2006 01:02

bradstewart:
Grant17:So then..."the maximum possible connection speed between your modem and your local phone exchange" could NEVER be 7.6Mbps then could it, because part of that link runs at only 2Mbps .

Therefore, how can "the xtra blurbstill be correct"?

QED I think.

Because as you know xtra never promised 7.6Mbps... Have you got that yet? They promised the maximum your line can deliver. Which with a conklin is 2Mbps... So the blurb is true. Those people are getting their maximum.

QED!

Says he with a Telecom banner :-)

I think it's misleading advertising, if you explain something in very basic terms, but you actually need to be a highly skilled engineer (and have insider knowledge) to know the backhaul capacity.

I'm suprised you would not feel cheated, if this had happened to you, I would if my parents signed up, their modem told them 7Megabits and then they said oh no, sorry sir your phone line is connected to a knee bone, which is connected to the sky hub, which is somehow connected to the magic cloud, and payment is on the 20th. Thanks.

But each to their own. The commerce commission doesn't seem to agree with your rational though. They are investigating telecom for false advertising.

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#52562 16-Nov-2006 01:18

chiefie:
freitasm: Why is that people that don't like the rules, and break the rules always come blaming the moderator and site owner? This is really getting tired and old.

Simple reason is, when people signed up for service, or group, or any association, most people do not read the rules, conditions and terms etc. and they just sign their waiver and agreed to the constitution of the association.

so in fact, if one has done so this way, it is their own stupidity and foolishness for not taking great care of themselves to ensure they understand and fully comply to the guidelines that to be followed.

in short, they have only themselves to blame for any foolishness acts.

I agree with the rules. OK. Sorry. I get it. I've been bad. I'm a shallow warez boy with 1 life left. hehe. (Well, it makes me feel young at least if only for a while.)

But, if you think anyone in their right mind sits down and reads through the dribble that is EULA's and conditions of use, then either you have little else to do, or I am terrible bad at managing my time.

I sign up to a few websites a week, and download a similar amount of software. Thats about 50 to 100 pages of reading, oh and tell me what pray tell, do I do if I don't agree with a clause?

Do you think I could e-mail the people in charge of this website, and negotiate terms with them? Your a moderator, could I remove clause 2 from your signup please? I don't agree with it? No - doesn't happen, good luck.

You click I accept, potentially signing your life, or first born away (in the full knowledge, that in fact courts have found these licences to be uninforceable, and move on with your day.)

If you are really serious in what you believe, then you would in fact print these documents out, so you have a written copy in case the EULA/terms change in the future, so you had proof of what you agreed with at time of 'signing'...

...Oh wait... Don't forget clause 13d, which clearly states these terms may change at any time, and you must continue to check back at this page and re-read the terms to check you are still in agreeance with them...

So, I agree I have been "stupid and foolish" - But do tell me, do you actually read all the agreements your sign on the web, and print them out? Or are you labeled in this bucket as well?

Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

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