Why are there data caps in New Zealand?

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#827288 28-May-2013 20:03

maxzzz:
ChillingSilence: France is much nicer though, I have a seedbox with Gigabit connectivity for the first 3TH of data, then it slows to unlimited at 100mbps...

Legit have downloaded a "Linux ISO" at over 800mbps!

Yes with OVH the bandwidth is very cheap and since their new datacenter in North America their connectivity to the Pacific is really improved :)

Yeah they are pretty awesome! May have to look into that...

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#827289 28-May-2013 20:06

Why are their data caps in the US? (albeit soft caps on "unlimited" plans)

It's no longer the land of unlimited internet. People are slowly realising that net neutrality is a mythical thing that can't exist in the real world, and bandwidth isn't an infinite resource.

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#827292 28-May-2013 20:14

sbiddle: Why are their data caps in the US? (albeit soft caps on "unlimited" plans)

So that Comcast can sell you their own video stuff that doesn't count towards your cap!

oxnsox

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#827293 28-May-2013 20:16

I see major differences in three models discussed here:
The current telco model starts with a high base charge for the line/delivery (service) channel, additional (and varible) costs are based on volumn of product (bandwidth) ordered or delivered. There appears to be an infinite available resorce because price falls with volumn.

The car/vehicle model has a fixed rate for the service, and no volumn incentives. Its a fixed price per unit and each unit includes a service charge. Consumer use requires over purchasing..... buying a volumn for use in the future. There dont appear to be any consumption restrictions (appearance of an infinite resource)

Electricity has a low service charge but variable unit charge. Variations are based on both user volumn and market demand. Its a resource with a finite available volumn at any time so price is used to control demand because ideally producers want to run at near maximum capacity but can't oversupply.

None are really comparable, but what would be a better model for data delivery??

It's probably also worth noting that infrastucture charges/costs for power and fuel are lower per unit as they're both mature systems. Data delivery infrastructure on the other hand is changing so quickly per unit costs are higher and more varible.

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#827322 28-May-2013 20:51

My preference would be to pay [Monthly] to access the service and have traffic within NZ free. I don't agree with paying to use a service once one has already been charged to access it.

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#827368 28-May-2013 21:37

freitasm: Looking at the Telecom Geekzone Crowdsource project the top most voted submission so far is a way to record usage by individual device/person in an account.

This got me thinking. It seems obvious that despite some high caps plans available (and even some unlimited ones) people still think data caps are a limiting factor for effective broadband usage in New Zealand.

It has nothing to do with that. There are two main reasons for usage recording by user/account:

1) When multiple people share and pay for an internet connection they want some way of making sure everyone is getting their fair share of the cap. If the plan was PAYG instead of cap usage stats would be even more important in tallying up who owes what on the internet bill this month, much like sorting out who made what long distance call in the days of old.

2) Parents want some way of rationing out the internet to their children. As a child hating grumpy-old-hermit-at-the-end-of-the-street type I have no idea why, but it's been mentioned several times during the comp.

I for one don't want to see all internet become unlimited because A) as some have said granny and her 8 emails a week shouldn't be subsidizing everyone else and B) the only way to make the internet an infinite resource is to allow bandwidth to infinitely degrade during peak times, and I for one prefer some guarantees around bandwidth.

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#827444 29-May-2013 00:04

richms:

Perhaps providers should stop offering service to people with a history of line issues that have not had their wiring sorted? You cant get power onto a house with 1930's wiring in it, why should the internet be any different? Those crap installs hurt everyone with their need for higher levels so resulting crosstalk.

If you look at how ADSL is sold in some parts of the world, it is a professionally installed service. Eg. no DIY filters. In some small Co-ops in the USA they still only install it on dry loops with telephone running on a separate pair.

The whole DIY install has created a market where the consumer thinks they can do a proper install and doesnt want to pay to have a professional put on a proper line filter or help optimize the line conditions.

In the UK, BT Infinity (VDSL) is still usually installed professionally - though this article from last year says they have developed a specially designed vdsl filter that connects only to the master socket, and you can order an Infinity Extension kit which is a professionally installed high quality cable (probably cat5) which will extend the VDSL port on the master filter to another socket in the house.

I had a similar situation today
Customer called yesterday saying their vodafone broadband was running slow. I went out and found their modem had a 20m telephone extension cable (low quality) and was running under a floor mat and started to fray.

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#827473 29-May-2013 06:44

At least the changes to VDSL2 installation charges (will hopefully) will put a stop to these sorts of things.

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#827502 29-May-2013 08:34

richms:
plambrechtsen:

I would say out of the issues I have dealt with over the last 6+ months, perhaps 1 or 2 were related to the old Telecom supplied modem. I have only had one customer fault with the new one (TG582N). That is from dealing with well over 100 folks in that time.
The vast majority of issues is poor internal wiring causing fault. And with that... Most people see the $100 (wlg with Cyril7) or $150 (akl coffeebaron) vs $200+ (Chorus) to get a Master Filter as a good investment, but there have been approximately 20% of the folks I have dealt with that refused to put any investment in and expect their provider to pick up the tab... So IMHO it goes both ways.

Perhaps providers should stop offering service to people with a history of line issues that have not had their wiring sorted? You cant get power onto a house with 1930's wiring in it, why should the internet be any different? Those crap installs hurt everyone with their need for higher levels so resulting crosstalk.

That's a tad extreme, poor electricity wiring in a dwelling can cause fires and kill, I don't recall bad phone wiring killing anyone or burning a dwelling down.

Most consumers would have no idea what state their home phone circuit is in, how to test it or check it and fix it. Most ISP offer self install which I would imagine most would take up to save $200+ install costs. Maybe Telco/ISP's could offer a pre install audit service.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#827684 29-May-2013 12:32

raytaylor:

The whole DIY install has created a market where the consumer thinks they can do a proper install and doesnt want to pay to have a professional put on a proper line filter or help optimize the line conditions.

Because some of us have no trouble putting two and two together, (eg. splicing cables together) and can do the job..
I am a consumer, I did the job and it works perfect.

Also, optimise uses an "s" not "z".

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#827720 29-May-2013 13:52

model 2 because i am not a "heavy" user. let's say 80% of people use 20% of the bandwidth, so if you use model 1 then 80% of people are paying a lot more than they needed to.

in fact if you use model 1 then the 20% of the mad heavy users will use EVEN MORE! hence i support model 2.

but a mixture is suitable i think because everyone's situation is different.

eg - if your flat uses huge amounts of data it's easier to just use unlimited and suffer the consequences of slow traffic if the paying people get fast traffic.

i think the question is how we make larger bandwidth more affordable to the end user coz finite as it is, some countries seem to have a larger tank than ours, Oz for example.

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ChillingSilence

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#827733 29-May-2013 14:15

joker97: i think the question is how we make larger bandwidth more affordable to the end user coz finite as it is, some countries seem to have a larger tank than ours, Oz for example.

Theirs still travels across the same pipe as ours does to the US, they just have greater economies of scale.

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#827735 29-May-2013 14:17

how about the good people at telecom just give every ISP free international capacity on their cable yaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy

*Insert big spe*dtest result here*

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#827738 29-May-2013 14:19

KiwiNZ:
richms:
plambrechtsen:

I would say out of the issues I have dealt with over the last 6+ months, perhaps 1 or 2 were related to the old Telecom supplied modem. I have only had one customer fault with the new one (TG582N). That is from dealing with well over 100 folks in that time.
The vast majority of issues is poor internal wiring causing fault. And with that... Most people see the $100 (wlg with Cyril7) or $150 (akl coffeebaron) vs $200+ (Chorus) to get a Master Filter as a good investment, but there have been approximately 20% of the folks I have dealt with that refused to put any investment in and expect their provider to pick up the tab... So IMHO it goes both ways.

Perhaps providers should stop offering service to people with a history of line issues that have not had their wiring sorted? You cant get power onto a house with 1930's wiring in it, why should the internet be any different? Those crap installs hurt everyone with their need for higher levels so resulting crosstalk.

That's a tad extreme, poor electricity wiring in a dwelling can cause fires and kill, I don't recall bad phone wiring killing anyone or burning a dwelling down.

Most consumers would have no idea what state their home phone circuit is in, how to test it or check it and fix it. Most ISP offer self install which I would imagine most would take up to save $200+ install costs. Maybe Telco/ISP's could offer a pre install audit service.

Furthermore, you could make an argument that by having a low-cost, but acknowledged as cr@pier option (plug in filters), then you are increasing the availability of an increasingly essential resource - the internet - to less well-off people who can barely afford the ~$40 extra per month for broadband.

I think its just an issue of communication - at present its like: "Would you like to pay $99 now or $249 now to signup to broadband? With the $249 option you have to take half a day off work waiting for the Chorus tech". Average Joe needs to comprehend the benefits to understand that the full install delivers fantastic bang for your buck

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#829072 31-May-2013 22:44

freitasm:
kobiak: i think you're comparing apples and oranges as I see car/petrol as products and internet/bandwidth as service.

I can have unlimited service, but unlimited products? really?

I am trying to get to the minimum factor here: energy/bits.

The car in itself is a product (as you rightly claim) but so is the computer you use to access the Internet.

The roads (car) are infrastructure as public networks are infrastructure.

Cars need petrol, the computer need bits access.

The "service" in a car is transportation. The "service" in a computer network is access.

So, yes at some point one is a product, the other is a service, but try to get to individual parts. Which one part is a product needed to access it?

So the question is: how do you pay for the roads? Sure some of the costs are built into petrol prices with fuel tax, but lots of other costs come from property owners in the area via council rates and from income taxes via central government funding for highways. The cost of building and maintaining a 6 lane motorway instead of a windy gravel road is not directly transfered to the road user.

You could argue that roads should be funded more like the internet.

Time to find a new industry!

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