VDSL Performance & Tuning

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195 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 5

#756522 6-Feb-2013 12:49

stevehodge:
fellaintga:
I have mine set not to sync every night so I was connected for 6 weeks and tonight tried a manual resync. Stayed on DLM1. My stats are pretty close to yours so hoping it will get a profile upgrade.

Mine's also set not to reconnect each night. The sync that put me on 17a was not initiated by me.

What's your attenuation? How far to the cabinet? Mine attenuation was 2db on ADSL and 5db in the 8b profile. The cabinet is at the end of my drive way, there is likely to be about 120m wire. I'm down a right-of-way with a number of other houses so I think I am getting a bit of crosstalk on the ADSL frequencies though and I have had pretty high error rates at times.

I think Snap said it was 2dB to the house and I was getting 5dB on ADSL now it is 6dB on VDSL. I am within 200m of the cabinet and syncing at 43Mb at the moment with error rate of 0.11 so I am hoping thats more than good enough if it will change.

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tknz

182 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 7

#761623 13-Feb-2013 11:22

Hey Guys,

These are my settings does anyone have any recommendations on how what I should tweak? perhaps the SNR down a bit to get a bit more sync?

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
VDSL Profile: Profile 8b
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 19 days: 11 hours: 6 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 10.393 Mbps 44.594 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 10.357 Mbps 44.527 Mbps
Trellis Coding: OFF ON
SNR Margin: 13.6 dB 12.2 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: - 1.6 dBm 13.5 dBm
Receive Power: 3.0 dBm 12.0 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 0.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 1.2 dB 1.6 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 11.704 Mbps 48.372 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): N/A 27.8 N/A N/A 0.9 25.1 N/A
Signal Attenuation(dB): N/A 26.9 N/A N/A 0.9 25.1 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): N/A 13.6 N/A N/A 12.1 12.3 N/A
Transmit Power(dBm): N/A - 1.7 N/A N/A 12.7 5.8 N/A
============================================================================

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Any views and ideas that I have expressed in my comments are my own, and do not represent my place of work.
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sidefx

3776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1296

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#761745 13-Feb-2013 14:05

@Tuikapo: What modem are you using? If you have low line attenuation and are close to cabinet I'd probably leave everything well alone and see if you end up on 17a :)

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
- Richard Feynman

tknz

182 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 7

#761774 13-Feb-2013 14:57

sidefx: @Tuikapo: What modem are you using? If you have low line attenuation and are close to cabinet I'd probably leave everything well alone and see if you end up on 17a :)

Hey, Using a zyxel p-870h-51a v2 - Supports 17a, but unfortunately never got assigned 17a.

Have around 1.6db line attenuation.

sidefx

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#761779 13-Feb-2013 15:08

Tuikapo:
sidefx: @Tuikapo: What modem are you using? If you have low line attenuation and are close to cabinet I'd probably leave everything well alone and see if you end up on 17a :)

Hey, Using a zyxel p-870h-51a v2 - Supports 17a, but unfortunately never got assigned 17a.

Have around 1.6db line attenuation.

Right, I thought it was, sorry not used to reading stats on non-fritzbox ;) How long have you been on VDSL?

If you read on previous page, @stevehodge has been put onto 17a after a long while on 8b. And I believe previously chorus has said that DLM *should* automatically move people to 17a if they meet certain (strict) criteria. With that attenuation I would think you should have a chance - not sure what affect tweaking SNR, etc might have on the chances of that but given steve's experience I'd tend to leave it alone and see.

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
- Richard Feynman

stevehodge

393 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 52

#761829 13-Feb-2013 16:37

Tuikapo: Hey Guys,

These are my settings does anyone have any recommendations on how what I should tweak? perhaps the SNR down a bit to get a bit more sync?

Does that modem report the error rate anywhere? Attenuation looks good, but the error rate is probably more important from a tweaking point of view.

As sidefx said, I've been put on a 17a profile recently, apparently automatically (certainly I didn't request it). So my advice would be to leave it alone for a month or two and see what happens.

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Spyware

3820 posts

Uber Geek
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Lifetime subscriber

#761877 13-Feb-2013 18:36

Tuikapo:
sidefx: @Tuikapo: What modem are you using? If you have low line attenuation and are close to cabinet I'd probably leave everything well alone and see if you end up on 17a :)

Hey, Using a zyxel p-870h-51a v2 - Supports 17a, but unfortunately never got assigned 17a.

Have around 1.6db line attenuation.

And you have a master splitter filter isolating any wire stubs??

EDIT: With low attenuation you should get 50/10 without question if the wiring side of things is A1. Mine is just a single 25 meter run of cat5 from demarc.

I have the same router at 70 line of sight meters from cabinet (I suspect the real cable run around cul-de-sac is 290 meters or so as my Cisco on ADSL2+ circuit reports 4 dB attenuation).

============================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 8b
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   41 days: 22 hours: 13 minutes
============================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     10.393 Mbps       52.530 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     10.357 Mbps       52.452 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         OFF                ON
              SNR Margin:       19.3 dB           12.5 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:      -14.4 dBm          13.5 dBm
           Receive Power:        3.0 dBm          17.6 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols       0.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          4294967293.4294967288 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     14.800 Mbps       56.396 Mbps
============================================================================
      VDSL Band Status    U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
Line Attenuation(dB): N/A    12.2     N/A     N/A   - 4.7    13.5     N/A
Signal Attenuation(dB): N/A    11.8     N/A     N/A   - 4.7    13.5     N/A
        SNR Margin(dB): N/A    19.3     N/A     N/A    12.6    12.4     N/A
   Transmit Power(dBm): N/A   -14.4     N/A     N/A    12.9     5.4     N/A
============================================================================

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stevehodge

393 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 52

#761894 13-Feb-2013 19:02

Spyware:
EDIT: With low attenuation you should get 50/10 without question if the wiring side of things is A1. Mine is just a single 25 meter run of cat5 from demarc.

I have the same router at 70 line of sight meters from cabinet (I suspect the real cable run around cul-de-sac is 290 meters or so as my Cisco on ADSL2+ circuit reports 4 dB attenuation).

It's not necessarily true that you will get 50/10 with low attenuation and good wiring. My ADSL2+ attenuation was reported as 2db and 5db on VDSL. I was still only getting 48/10 at best. The only wiring between the demarc and the modem is cat 6 I installed to make sure that my old wiring was not a problem (the new wiring made little or no difference). I doubt there is a significant problem with the wiring back to the cabinet in my case but I suspect there may be some interference due to crosstalk from other lines.

So YMMV. VDSL2 is just too dependent on the exact nature of the line to make that sort of sweeping generalisation.

tknz

182 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 7

#762057 14-Feb-2013 08:31

And you have a master splitter filter isolating any wire stubs??

===

Cat6 10m run from Chrous line drop, where they dropped a new line from the pole as well. Practically sitting on the cabinet. No phone line, so no filter.

sidefx

3776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1296

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#762069 14-Feb-2013 09:02

As steve mentioned your error rates are very important if you do want to think about SNR tweaking, especially if you value low latency. In my eyes the lower latency of DLM-1 is much more valuable than a few extra megabits.

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
- Richard Feynman

redstorm

56 posts

Master Geek

#762098 14-Feb-2013 10:08

I've been thinking about VDSL2 but don't know if it would be worth it, The Snap address checker confirms VDSL is available at my location. below are the current ADSL2+ SNr and Line Attenuation numbers from my TG582n

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.112 / 13.107

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 7,5 / 19,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 12,7 / 12,1

Based on the Line Attenuation of 19.5 the expected speed is only

http://www.speedguide.net/dsl_speed_calc.php

Approximate Distance 1412 meters
ADSL Max Speed 8000 kbps
ADSL2+ Max Speed 20800 kbps
VDSL2 Max Speed 23460 kbps

Based on these numbers it wouldn't be worth it for me, should i wait for UFB.

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tknz

182 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 7

#762109 14-Feb-2013 10:24

sidefx: As steve mentioned your error rates are very important if you do want to think about SNR tweaking, especially if you value low latency. In my eyes the lower latency of DLM-1 is much more valuable than a few extra megabits.

Cheers @sidefx so I checked errors are very low and ping time to somewhere like Auckland from Wellington is 13ms Sydney is 34ms so it's quite low at the moment.

It says latency to the Exchange on the modem config is 0ms - <1ms

Cheers :)

sidefx

3776 posts

Uber Geek
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#762132 14-Feb-2013 11:22

redstorm: I've been thinking about VDSL2 but don't know if it would be worth it, The Snap address checker confirms VDSL is available at my location. below are the current ADSL2+ SNr and Line Attenuation numbers from my TG582n

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.112 / 13.107

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 7,5 / 19,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 12,7 / 12,1

Based on the Line Attenuation of 19.5 the expected speed is only

http://www.speedguide.net/dsl_speed_calc.php

Approximate Distance 1412 meters
ADSL Max Speed 8000 kbps
ADSL2+ Max Speed 20800 kbps
VDSL2 Max Speed 23460 kbps

Based on these numbers it wouldn't be worth it for me, should i wait for UFB.

If that attenuation is accurate, then it's likely you won't be able to get VDSL anyway (I believe chorus will only connect VDSL if your attenuation is 10.8db or less)

However to get a definite answer you should just ring snap and get them to do a pre-qual. I don't think the figure shown in a modem is necessarily accurate and the pre-qual will tell you for sure. The state of your house wiring is also a big consideration, so don't forget to factor that into your upfront costs.

Also remember to consider upstream as well as downstream in whether VDSL is worth it - a potential ten-fold increase in upstream throughput is a huge advantage of VDSL over ADSL IMO, more so than the increased downstream. But when is your area due UFB?

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
- Richard Feynman

richms

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#762194 14-Feb-2013 12:23

You would get 10 meg upstream. That alone is worth getting VDSL even if the downstream doesnt improve a hell of a lot at all.

Richard rich.ms

SamF

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#762219 14-Feb-2013 12:39

Tuikapo: Cheers @sidefx so I checked errors are very low and ping time to somewhere like Auckland from Wellington is 13ms Sydney is 34ms so it's quite low at the moment.

It says latency to the Exchange on the modem config is 0ms - <1ms

Cheers :)

'Low' is relative; do you have an actual figure you can post? Preferably a screenshot.

Nice attenuation figures btw! If there was ever a contender for automatic 17a profile selection it's your line!! :)

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