Installing Linux and Windows on new PC

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ANglEAUT

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#2685598 1-Apr-2021 21:42

This:

shrub: 2 hard drives. ...

avoids this:

openmedia: You just need to watch out for Windows hijacking UEFI ...

Also happens if you have to do a repair of windows for some reason.

Some things to keep in mind

Seriously, Windows wants to be the only OS running on the PC. Has been like thins since MS DOS
It will wipe your boot record, so make sure to back up your boot records
Can you install Windows onto an external USB-C drive & only connect that when you want to run Windows?
If you only occasionally run Windows, either disable Windows Updates (not recommended) or schedule time for regular updates.
VM's have the benefit of easily rolling back to a previous snapshot. Depending on your Windows needs, a very handy feature.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

KiwiSurfer

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#2685607 1-Apr-2021 22:13

If you have Windows installed already, use Disk Manager to reduce the size of the Windows partition and leave plenty of free space for Linux. I found it useful to disable swap file to maximise the amount of space I could free up. Just remember to enable it again--a lesson I learnt when after I realised leaving the swap file off was the reason why my Windows games kept crashing.

Another option (if you can) is to simply nuke the existing Windows partition and create a new one with the exact size you want. Linux can then go into the rest.

Debian will install the GRUB boot manager which will then come up first when your computer boot. It defaults to booting the most current Linux kernel within 5 secs but you can change it to boot other things including Windows.

This is pretty much how it's set up 'out of the box' installing Debian so no need to worry about following special instructions. It just works by default. Ubuntu is based on Debian so unless they've changed stuff significantly it'd be similar.

fe31nz

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#2685629 2-Apr-2021 00:41

If you want Windows 10 to be able to be updated, unfortunately the only way that will work is if the first bootloader is the Windows one. For normal updates, the update process usually works fine if Grub2 is the first bootloader and it starts Windows, but for any update where Windows automatically reboots itself, they usually fail if Windows is not allowed to control the boot process. So the big version upgrades will fail with strange error messages.

So for my dual boot systems, I allow Windows to put its bootloader in the default place on the drive, and when I install Linux I get Grub2 put in either a separate small partition (100 Mibytes will do) or in the main Linux partition. Then I boot to Windows and use the freeware EasyBCD tool to add a chainload entry into the Windows bootloader that points to where I installed Grub2.

You get the latest EasyBCD from here:

https://neosmart.net/Download/Register

You do not need to register - just click the Download button.

EasyBCD will also allow you to set the Windows bootloader to default to booting Grub2.

KiwiSurfer

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#2685875 2-Apr-2021 20:43

That is strange, I have no such issues with Windows 10 updates on my dual-boot Windows/Debian machine and I'm using GRUB as the bootloader with all relevant settings untouched from the default. I'm pretty sure Windows just continues the updating process the next time I boot into Windows. I'll make a point of observing the next updates. The only tricky thing I've observed is the need to enter in the Bitlocker key every now and then when it detects a change (possibly triggered by Debian changing the bootloader portion of the drive) although that in itself doesn't seem to prevent updates as far as I know.

fe31nz

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#2685914 2-Apr-2021 23:50

As I said, it is only a problem where a Windows update requires that it automatically reboot itself. You normally only see that when it is a major version upgrade. If you watch it happening, you apply the upgrade and tell it to reboot, and you see the normal spinner as it applies things then shuts down and reboots. On the first reboot (and possibly one or two more reboots), it will seem to be booting up as normal for an update, with the spinner saying it is doing the upgrade, but before it goes into graphics mode it will automatically reboot again. Only on the final reboot will it enter graphics mode and allow you to login. It appears that these special text-mode only reboots are booted in a special mode - maybe with different kernel parameters, so that things that are not normally writeable can be overwritten. If you do not have the Windows bootloader first, it appears that the special boot mode gets lost and the upgrade fails and you see it uninstall what it has already done and roll back to the old version, taking a couple more reboots, after which it gives you a cryptic numeric code to look up. The code, of course, does not actually tell you what the problem is.

My main Windows PC is not dual boot, but my laptop and my test PC are. They both displayed this problem and failed to do a major upgrade a couple of years ago, and it took me 6 months of trying things before I hit on making the Windows bootloader the first one.

jlittle

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#2686333 4-Apr-2021 15:47

On a dual boot laptop I did a Windows 10 update recently that took ages, hours, with multiple reboots, and it didn't trample on the UEFI settings at all, every reboot went to the grub menu. However, I had a (actually, a few) bootable USB to hand to regain control if necessary. Maybe it wasn't such a major update, and I'm in for a longer process when I hit one. (If I have to do it again I might tell grub to make the windows the default boot allowing it to reboot to Windows unattended; that would save me having to watch it to reboot to Windows when required.)

It might be quicker to do a Windows install into a VM...

Regards, John Little

Lenovo

Shop now for Lenovo laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

sdav

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#2686471 4-Apr-2021 23:43

fe31nz:

As I said, it is only a problem where a Windows update requires that it automatically reboot itself. You normally only see that when it is a major version upgrade. If you watch it happening, you apply the upgrade and tell it to reboot, and you see the normal spinner as it applies things then shuts down and reboots. On the first reboot (and possibly one or two more reboots), it will seem to be booting up as normal for an update, with the spinner saying it is doing the upgrade, but before it goes into graphics mode it will automatically reboot again. Only on the final reboot will it enter graphics mode and allow you to login. It appears that these special text-mode only reboots are booted in a special mode - maybe with different kernel parameters, so that things that are not normally writeable can be overwritten. If you do not have the Windows bootloader first, it appears that the special boot mode gets lost and the upgrade fails and you see it uninstall what it has already done and roll back to the old version, taking a couple more reboots, after which it gives you a cryptic numeric code to look up. The code, of course, does not actually tell you what the problem is.

My main Windows PC is not dual boot, but my laptop and my test PC are. They both displayed this problem and failed to do a major upgrade a couple of years ago, and it took me 6 months of trying things before I hit on making the Windows bootloader the first one.

Interesting thanks. So a solution would be if I identified a windows update is required, I enter the BIOS menu and just change the boot order before I initiate the updates? I don't mind doing that every few months when I move back to windows and it needs a number of updates.

sdav

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#2686472 4-Apr-2021 23:47

ANglEAUT:

Some things to keep in mind

Can you install Windows onto an external USB-C drive & only connect that when you want to run Windows?

This might be a way to go actually, I would need to buy a new USB-C drive. Thanks for the idea!

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