Ryzen Zen3 system build including follow up.

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#2602324 12-Nov-2020 06:22

Tzoi:

SATA ports should only be disabled if you are using a SATA m2 hard drive, not a NVME one

depends on the chipset, some will disable a few sata ports when an m.2 slot is used as they only have so much bandwith (pci-e lanes) avalable to them.

same reason why on mid-low tare mothereboards, when you install a second graphics card both slots will switch to x8 mode.\

Tzoi:

3200 MHz CL16 and 3600 MHz CL18 have the same latency, but the 3600 RAM will be better overall, especially with Ryzen

yes but what is that difference? a few % which is normally within a margin of error?

The OP doesnt game so its unlikely they will notice that at all.

timmmay

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#2602361 12-Nov-2020 08:16

Thanks all. I'm looking at the Silent Base 601 case, which is quiet when not too busy, has a removable front panel for better airflow / cooling. That has fans included, but I'll change to the Noctua F15 fan for the extra one I'd need if I get that case. Unfortunately you can't get the solid side version in New Zealand, only the window side, which negates half the point. So probably back to the Fractal R5.

Have asked Gigabyte about the SATA port thing, but they say they'll reply in 3-7 days. There's nothing in the manual about that. If it does restrict I'll drop down to the Elite version of the motherboard, the extra SATA ports is the only reason I decided on it from memory.

From memory of the youtube video 3200MHz RAM was up to 10% slower than 4000MHz, and 3600 was in the middle. I think I'll stick with 3600. Is the G.Skill Trident Z Neo a good brand that works with Ryzen? I don't mind going more expensive if there's a good reason to, but also don't want to waste money. I don't need RGB, my case will be solid.

Is using motherboard RAID 0 a good idea? I current use ReFS and Microsoft Storage Spaces. I want to move away from ReFS as defrag is really slow, and don't think it's an option for new builds anyway. Not sure if it's the storage spaces or ReFS making defrag slow. The disks as fast enough, it's just defrag is slow.

Motherboard manual note:

The PCIEX2 slot shares bandwidth with the SATA3 4, 5 connectors. The PCIEX2 slot will become unavailable when a device is installed in the SATA3 4 or SATA3 5 connector.

Jase2985

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#2602570 12-Nov-2020 11:55

you will be fine, and all the info you needed was in the manual about the sata ports.

"1 x PCI Express x16 slot (PCIEX4), integrated in the Chipset:- Supporting PCIe 3.0 x4 mode*
The M2B_SB connector shares bandwidth with the PCIEX4 slot. The PCIEX4 slot will become unavailable when an SSD is installed in the M2B_SB connectors.
1 x PCI Express x16 slot (PCIEX2), integrated in the Chipset:- Supporting PCIe 3.0 x2 mode*
The PCIEX2 slot shares bandwidth with the SATA3 4, 5 connectors. The PCIEX2 slot will become unavailable when a device is installed in the SATA3 4 or SATA3 5 connector

Thats how gigabyte are getting round the limited PCI-E Lanes. you will only have the top PCI-E x16 slot if you have a second M.2 SSD and more than 3 SATA SSD's otherwise you will have either 2 or 3 PCI-E 16x slots depending on how you put in your storage

of course 4000mhz ram is going to be 10% faster than 3200mhz ram, it has a 10% higher speed. but you will not notice that with your workloads, so you are just spending money on something that gives you no tangible benefits. your not trying to eek out ever frame you can in games or worried about an extra 10 seconds per file you render.

SpartanVXL

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#2602590 12-Nov-2020 12:15

Best to get 2x16GB dual-rank (which most 16GB are) dimms for the b550 aorus pro as it uses daisy chain topology.

Other issues reported for aorus pro is USB controlllers going funky when upping mem freq with xmp. Some reports of fixing it with latest bios+windows 2004+usb controller drivers but experience may vary.

timmmay

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#2602593 12-Nov-2020 12:18

Jase2985:

Thats how gigabyte are getting round the limited PCI-E Lanes. you will only have the top PCI-E x16 slot if you have a second M.2 SSD and more than 3 SATA SSD's otherwise you will have either 2 or 3 PCI-E 16x slots depending on how you put in your storage

Thanks for the interpretation :)

SpartanVXL: Best to get 2x16GB dual-rank (which most 16GB are) dimms for the b550 aorus pro as it uses daisy chain topology.

Other issues reported for aorus pro is USB controlllers going funky when upping mem freq with xmp. Some reports of fixing it with latest bios+windows 2004+usb controller drivers but experience may vary.

I was watching a youtube video linked earlier that showed that four sticks of RAM is faster than two sticks.

Should I be looking at a different motherboard given the RAM / USB issues? I really only need four SATA ports, fifth would be a spare for DVD if I ever need it, and sixth for future protection. Elite would be fine, and don't mind other good brands. Aorus Pro just looked like a good upper mid range board.

SpartanVXL

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#2602610 12-Nov-2020 12:52

So an amendment to my previous post, you’ll be fine with 4x8GB if you don’t intend to go higher than 32GB.

It’s not so much the number of dimms but rather the banks of chips each stick has (how many ranks). Most 8GB dimms are single rank while 16GB upwards are dual-rank (check to confirm, but unlikely to get the opposite).

So 4x8GB is two ranks per channel for the memory controller. 2x16GB is the same dual ranks per channel. 4x16GB is quad rank and starts to have issues hitting xmp settings around 3200-3600 although not sure if applies to zen3 (which uses the same controller as that hasnt changed from zen2).

See here for example from a 3950x on x570 user: https://www.overclock.net/threads/4-dimms-on-x570-daisy-chain-tips-and-tricks.1746654/

timmmay

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#2602663 12-Nov-2020 13:38

SpartanVXL: So an amendment to my previous post, you’ll be fine with 4x8GB if you don’t intend to go higher than 32GB.

It’s not so much the number of dimms but rather the banks of chips each stick has (how many ranks). Most 8GB dimms are single rank while 16GB upwards are dual-rank (check to confirm, but unlikely to get the opposite).

So 4x8GB is two ranks per channel for the memory controller. 2x16GB is the same dual ranks per channel. 4x16GB is quad rank and starts to have issues hitting xmp settings around 3200-3600 although not sure if applies to zen3 (which uses the same controller as that hasnt changed from zen2).

See here for example from a 3950x on x570 user: https://www.overclock.net/threads/4-dimms-on-x570-daisy-chain-tips-and-tricks.1746654/

Interesting, thanks for that. I don't want to mess with this type of thing at all, I just want to put RAM in and have it work. I suspect based on my reading 8GB is always single rank should be ok.

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rb99

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#2602678 12-Nov-2020 13:50

I know you like your Pro, but just sayin' -

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/HDDSAM971500/Samsung-970-Evo-500GB-M2-2280NVMe-SSD-RWMax-3400MB

$99 Black Friday

Edit - I paid $169 last December

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

SpartanVXL

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#2602689 12-Nov-2020 14:06

rb99:
I know you like your Pro, but just sayin' -

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/HDDSAM971500/Samsung-970-Evo-500GB-M2-2280NVMe-SSD-RWMax-3400MB

$99 Black Friday

Edit - I paid $169 last December

Personal experience with a 970 evo 500GB, had the ‘disappearing’ issue about 2 years in. If you google the model + not showing in bios/windows theres a bunch of incidents where the device just stops showing up. No idea if they ever fixed with newer revision or firmware but just a warning for that particular stick. I RMA’d mine and got a straight up replacement swap from the store.

rb99

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#2602697 12-Nov-2020 14:14

SpartanVXL:
rb99:

I know you like your Pro, but just sayin' -

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/HDDSAM971500/Samsung-970-Evo-500GB-M2-2280NVMe-SSD-RWMax-3400MB

$99 Black Friday

Edit - I paid $169 last December

Personal experience with a 970 evo 500GB, had the ‘disappearing’ issue about 2 years in. If you google the model + not showing in bios/windows theres a bunch of incidents where the device just stops showing up. No idea if they ever fixed with newer revision or firmware but just a warning for that particular stick. I RMA’d mine and got a straight up replacement swap from the store.

I googled that, the first thing that showed up was to Samsung, where you have to log in to see their forum (why ?), the second was complaining about that happening to their Adata version, followed by someone saying same thing with a Intel 660, so I guess nothings safe...

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

timmmay

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#2602713 12-Nov-2020 14:15

rb99:

I know you like your Pro, but just sayin' -

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/HDDSAM971500/Samsung-970-Evo-500GB-M2-2280NVMe-SSD-RWMax-3400MB

$99 Black Friday

Edit - I paid $169 last December

If it's online maybe I do that, but I think the specials are all in-store. I'm not going into the crush for $60!

Tzoi

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#2602744 12-Nov-2020 14:53

Jase2985:

depends on the chipset, some will disable a few sata ports when an m.2 slot is used as they only have so much bandwith (pci-e lanes) avalable to them.

same reason why on mid-low tare mothereboards, when you install a second graphics card both slots will switch to x8 mode.\

Yea, I see now that to get the extra SATA ports some motherboards essentially have a pcie-sata card built into the motherboard - interesting!

On your second point, I think that's not just something for the mid-low motherboards, more to do with the CPU itself not having enough pcie lanes?

Jase2985:

yes but what is that difference? a few % which is normally within a margin of error?

The OP doesnt game so its unlikely they will notice that at all.

Not sure what the difference is and whether it will affect productivity workloads, just what I've read - so could well be just for gaming.

Also re black friday sale, PB Tech generally have a cyber monday sale with any products leftover from the black friday sale. Also I think this year their black friday sale is the whole weekend.

timmmay

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#2602766 12-Nov-2020 15:46

I guess it's worth waiting for Monday, since I'm not in a hurry to get the build done. I can always buy somewhere else if they run out of stock anyway.

timmmay

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#2603027 12-Nov-2020 21:11

Ok, PC ordered. Thanks very much to all for your help and advice. Here's what I got:

FRACTAL DESIGN Define R5 - R5 USB3.0 Mid Tower Case Black
Gigabyte Aorus B550 Pro (though I notice they're starting to get the v2 boards in now - but not the pro yet - I bet it arrives the day after my stuff arrives)
Ryzen 5 5600X
Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVME 500GB (I was only buying Pro for the reliability, the evo plus has 5 year warranty and performance is more than sufficient)
32GB total 4x8GB G.SKILL Trident Z Neo RGB F4-3600C18D-16GTZN 16 GB RAM (2X 8GB) DDR4 3600MHz, CL18
Cooler Master 550W Fully Modular (peak usage estimated at about 170W)
Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX550 (basic video card for non-gamers)
PB Tech Assembly (lack of time / presence of toddler makes it difficult to do myself, I'll just do the software install)

I may replace the fans included with the case with Noctua fans if I think it would help, or add additional fans, but PB doesn't have them in stock.

When PBTech do an install:

Do you get all the random bits that they didn't need to put in? Extra cables etc?
Given they don't install the OS, do they do a hardware test to check it's all working? I've had the odd failure in the past, weird things like buttons not working
Do they do a decent job of cabling?

Handle9

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#2603091 13-Nov-2020 06:47

You might run out of drive bays in that case 🤣

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