is Windows Phone/Mobile doomed

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#1332531 27-Jun-2015 08:50

Handle9:
MikeB4:
Handle9:
MikeB4: The App problem is going away

Your evidence please?

More and more Apps are appearing and there has been initiatives discussed by MSFT to address the App problem.

It all seems too little too late. The biggest problem is, that given that Windows Phone is so far behind. The market is quite mature, is that there really is no compelling reason to choose Windows Phone if you are embedded in another ecosystem. It has a different UI but what does it offer that is truly different?

Nothing, yet.

Familiarity, eventually. A lot of people who work with windows programs and laptops every day and who use Android or Apple phones now would likely be willing to move to a Windows phone if it was a good experience, integrated seamlessly with their Windows OS experience on other devices and as long as the price was similar to mid range Androids. If Microsoft can stick with it (and losses) long enough to get the software they should do better than fine. They could take back a big market share.

Microsoft has been a bit slow off the mark but they're doing some really interesting things in hardware and software now and their 'one OS' for everything idea is brilliant.

freitasm

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#1332561 27-Jun-2015 11:11

grant_k:
MikeB4:
mattwnz:
Handle9:
MikeB4: The App problem is going away

Your evidence please?

I can't see how the app problems is going away. Not unless they create an android emulator, that will let all android apps work on windows. Infact I can't see why they don't do that, although google won't like that. If you were an app developer, you are always going to write it for the OS that has the most users, as it has a better ROI.

If it were true that one would do it for the OS with the most users the Apple store would be very small

Yes indeed Mike. It's not only about the number of users, but how much money the average user on a given platform has to spend. We all know about the typical affluence of Apple users, but there is some evidence to suggest that a large number of IT Professionals use the WP platform, hence probably have a lot more money to spend than the average Android user.

Actually looking at numbers make it all very more interesting. Even thought there are many more Android devices out there than Apple iOS, when you look at logs, analytics, advertising, etc... Apple iOS is where the numbers are. Those the devices consuming content, buying things and watching ads.

For an example I am working on a project where half 40% of mobile visitors to a website use Apple iOS devices. The next TEN Android devices together (all of them Samsung BTW) don't get close to 15%. And the 12th device in volume of requests is... Apple iPod.

You see where this is going. It's not the volume of devices in the market, but what users do with these devices.

blakamin: I'm hugely into the Google ecosystem, drive, chromecast, chromebook, android.
I have a choice of hardware with my phones... Sony (preferred), LG, Samsung, Huawei, Moto.... geez, the list goes on.
All without major change.

What choices do I have with iOS? hahaha.

Windows Phone? pfft.

The Google ecosystem is great, but it's Google's. You don't have a choice really. On Windows you can select what you want: OneDrive, Box, Dropbox, or Google Drive? Chromecast or Miracast? Tablets or laptops?

You even have this choice on Apple too. So really, it comes down to hardware. And seeing some Android hardware are just completely crap low end stuff...

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#1332825 28-Jun-2015 00:21

freitasm:

The Google ecosystem is great, but it's Google's. You don't have a choice really. On Windows you can select what you want: OneDrive, Box, Dropbox, or Google Drive? Chromecast or Miracast? Tablets or laptops?

You even have this choice on Apple too. So really, it comes down to hardware. And seeing some Android hardware are just completely crap low end stuff...

I have dropbox & miracast on my my android... And have drive or dropbox on my windows laptop.
I don't use any of them because I prefer all my bills in one place, But I got free dropbox with a samsung purchase, miracast is everywhere...
But I can decide on a hardware manufacturer.. I don't have to have a nokia phone or an apple phone.

edit: for tablets I also have 2 nexus 7s of varying years and a dell streak 7 for car use.

blakamin

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#1332826 28-Jun-2015 00:22

JWR:
blakamin: I'm hugely into the Google ecosystem, drive, chromecast, chromebook, android.
I have a choice of hardware with my phones... Sony (preferred), LG, Samsung, Huawei, Moto.... geez, the list goes on.
All without major change.

What choices do I have with iOS? hahaha.

Windows Phone? pfft.

End of story.

I am sure they thank you for all the info.:)

Not if you tick some boxes...

Google me and tell me my real name and address..

blakamin

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#1332827 28-Jun-2015 00:24

MikeB4:
blakamin: I'm hugely into the Google ecosystem, drive, chromecast, chromebook, android.
I have a choice of hardware with my phones... Sony (preferred), LG, Samsung, Huawei, Moto.... geez, the list goes on.
All without major change.

What choices do I have with iOS? hahaha.

Windows Phone? pfft.

End of story.

And with Apple and MSFT that choice you have is even greater.

WTF? The mobile hardware I can buy from Apple and MS is more than Apple and Nokia? REALLY??? WHERE???!!!

MikeB4

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#1332843 28-Jun-2015 08:06

blakamin:
MikeB4:
blakamin: I'm hugely into the Google ecosystem, drive, chromecast, chromebook, android.
I have a choice of hardware with my phones... Sony (preferred), LG, Samsung, Huawei, Moto.... geez, the list goes on.
All without major change.

What choices do I have with iOS? hahaha.

Windows Phone? pfft.

End of story.

And with Apple and MSFT that choice you have is even greater.

WTF? The mobile hardware I can buy from Apple and MS is more than Apple and Nokia? REALLY??? WHERE???!!!

You missed my point, I am saying that with Apple and MS being in the market your choice is even bigger or would you prefer
there was only Android as your option.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Handle9

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#1332844 28-Jun-2015 08:12

JayADee: Familiarity, eventually. A lot of people who work with windows programs and laptops every day and who use Android or Apple phones now would likely be willing to move to a Windows phone if it was a good experience, integrated seamlessly with their Windows OS experience on other devices and as long as the price was similar to mid range Androids. If Microsoft can stick with it (and losses) long enough to get the software they should do better than fine. They could take back a big market share.

Microsoft has been a bit slow off the mark but they're doing some really interesting things in hardware and software now and their 'one OS' for everything idea is brilliant.

Here's the bit I don't get. The use case of a phone is radically different to the use case of a desktop. I don't get the benefit for the user of 'one OS' for everything. I get the technical value to the solution but how does it become relevant to consumers?

To become a mainstream OS windows phone needs to offer something significant, and easily understood, the other operating systems don't. I don't see what that is.

JayADee

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#1332965 28-Jun-2015 14:40

Because you have the same app or program on every device, and save files the same way on every device etc. And you log into your Microsoft account and all your settings, bookmarks, calendars, wallpaper, contacts, notes etc. can be the same on everything- laptop, phone, ultra portable, tablet. You can stop wrestling with different OS's and their quirks and get on with just using it.

You can kind of do that now but it isn't effortless and oftentimes requires some lateral thinking. Plus it's only fairly recently that it's even been possible and for a lot of people they don't want to be bothered or don't know how.

And the market is already there since there are so many Office users and Windows users and Windows friendly environments already. Plus Windows is very flexible and powerful and has a ton of software and developers already.

Sure, I use my phone differently, because I have a tablet and laptop too and a desktop I can borrow, but a lot of people have just a phone or just a phone plus one other device. And when I am on the go, I do occasionally use my phone to access stuff I would normally use a tablet for. Plus, a lot of these devices are merging ie. Phablets and ultra portables.

So, yeah. It could be huge.

kaihoka

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#1333103 28-Jun-2015 23:02

i have just brought my first smart phone. a nokia lumia 640.
i chose it because it was great hardware
i got the best bang for my buck and it has great reception for my rural area, much better than my husbands galaxy note
i am not app obsessed so most times i am not that bothered by the lack
i have even been known to use Bing
i think google and , samsung are suffering from the same hubris that microsoft suffered from for years from being so dominant .
i think i am going to get a good deal from microsoft who are going out of there way to win customers and are no longer resting on their laurels

Wade

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#1333220 29-Jun-2015 10:37

Handle9:

Here's the bit I don't get. The use case of a phone is radically different to the use case of a desktop. I don't get the benefit for the user of 'one OS' for everything. I get the technical value to the solution but how does it become relevant to consumers?

To become a mainstream OS windows phone needs to offer something significant, and easily understood, the other operating systems don't. I don't see what that is.

We use the same app differently on different devices so surely the use case is the same? Given the choice we would use the device that accomplished the task in the easiest fashion, be it a phone, tablet or desktop. If all of these devices are using a common OS, set of apps, cloud storage and all in sync surely it must be easier making it more relevant to the consumer as they just use the device that best suits the task at the time?

My wife decommissioned her iphone this weekend, not a problem as we have spare androids floating around, wow a supposedly simple task of transferring her contacts from icloud to Google turned into a nightmare, a perfect example of one OS being better suited to the general consumer

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#1333291 29-Jun-2015 12:31

reven: The way I see it, and I know many will disagree, iOS was the best when it first launched, up until about the iPhone 4s came out. That's when they stopped doing anything that great and just started minor updates. At that point android basically became the best smartphone/tablet platform, and is still to this day.

I simply couldn't disagree with you more.

I find Android so unintuitive and convoluted that I simply hate using it. God knows, I have tried. Some of the best hardware is on Android...but the software simply kills the experience.
I think the fragmentation/lack of standardisation are the biggest issues with the platform.

I have both Windows 8.1 and iOS devices and find them both to be intuitive and practical.

I have no desire to get under the hood on either platform, so both suit me well (and I am more like a typical user than most Geekzone members, I'd wager).

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#1334482 30-Jun-2015 21:35

It'll be doomed if companies like Tower Insurance with their driving app (only for iPhone and Android) don't start thinking about us windows phone users too and it's not just them either my bank ( BNZ ) doesn't yet have a windows phone app (yet another iPhone android only) so I'm SOL if I wish to check my balance while I'm out and about and not near an ATM and the story goes on and on

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#1334485 30-Jun-2015 21:39

http://www.androidauthority.com/rumor-microsoft-to-drop-windows-phone-for-android-621317/

Yeah right

grant_k

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#1334486 30-Jun-2015 21:40

Athlonite: ...
my bank ( BNZ ) doesn't yet have a windows phone app (yet another iPhone android only) so I'm SOL if I wish to check my balance while I'm out and about and not near an ATM and the story goes on and on

Does BNZ provide a mobile website?

Lack of a WP app also affects Kiwibank customers, but they do provide a decent mobile website which works pretty well.

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#1334498 30-Jun-2015 21:59

Athlonite: It'll be doomed if companies like Tower Insurance with their driving app (only for iPhone and Android) don't start thinking about us windows phone users too and it's not just them either my bank ( BNZ ) doesn't yet have a windows phone app (yet another iPhone android only) so I'm SOL if I wish to check my balance while I'm out and about and not near an ATM and the story goes on and on

This sort of thing is why I'm skeptical of the platform going anywhere. The sort of apps you are talking about don't have a use case on the desktop so I'm not sure there is a benefit being able to develop cross (Windows) platform. Meanwhile companies aren't going to develop apps for a platform that doesn't have many users as there is no ROI. The platform doesn't get more users because the app support is poor and Microsofts apps are available on all other platforms. Chicken, egg etc.

Windows Phone desperately needs a native killer app that is easily understood by "normal" users and has instant appeal. Given the incremental nature of mobile OS development recently I'm yet to be convinced there is one.

Those of you who are convinced Windows Phone will grow into a significant mobile OS may well be right, we'll just have to see who's right in a couple of years.

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