School wireless access points. Advice please.

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#719570 19-Nov-2012 15:46

MattR:
wasabi2k: I have seen Unifi done really well in campus environments, but sales support is pretty average in NZ. How long does it take to get spares?

I get them next day from gowifi, but they're cheap enough to have some spares on-site.

Sales support is great from Go Wifi and as stated they are so cheap so we always have a spare 3-pack in the office ready to go.

cyril7

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#719707 19-Nov-2012 19:59

Hi, the MoE is currently (and finally) coming up with some documents as to how school wireless networks just like what you are wanting to are setup, and essentially they follow the themes some of the posters on this thread have made. I recently passed my comments on the document back to the MoE.

PM if you want some feedback and more detailed setup methods, but can I support comments from Chevrolux that Unifi is a good product, there are other products more appropriate to much larger campuses (although I still struggle with the $) but to be honest a well setup Unifi network will work very well both on security/performance and the pocket.

If you are doing BYOD then you should be considering putting some money into a good firewall/proxy (which could be free in the form of a Pfsense or similar setup) and have BYOD traffic controlled as to where it goes and what restrictions you want. Setting up a AD/radius server to control access is also a good idea, infact pretty essential.

Cyril

blackjack17

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#719713 19-Nov-2012 20:07

Thank you all for your help.

It seems it is both more and less complicated than what I first thought, more complicated to do it DIY and less complicated to do it properly (and less expensive). I will be responding to the PMs soon and I have some hardish facts to give to the DP and IT person.

Once again thank you

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kyhwana2

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#719768 19-Nov-2012 21:24

Ahh, another example of "She'll be right" lack of security as hilighted at Kiwicon ;)
(Glad you've seen the light).

See http://wand.net.nz/pubs/112823169-New-Zealand-Information-Security-Workforce-Development-Strategy-Nov-2012-V1.pdf

Zeon

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#719823 19-Nov-2012 22:59

kyhwana2: Ahh, another example of "She'll be right" lack of security as hilighted at Kiwicon ;)
(Glad you've seen the light).

See http://wand.net.nz/pubs/112823169-New-Zealand-Information-Security-Workforce-Development-Strategy-Nov-2012-V1.pdf

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msukiwi

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#720083 20-Nov-2012 14:08

Otago University are spending $7,000,000.00 Yes that is $7 Million on expanding their wireless network!
http://www.odt.co.nz/campus/university-otago/233473/19m-broadband-upgrade-otago-university
Good contract for someone!

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Dingbatt

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#720167 20-Nov-2012 15:48

As a parent who spent good money on IT devices so my kids could BYOD at their high school, only to have them leave them at home because "the school has such useless wifi" (paraphrased to remove teen-speak) I can only encourage a proper system be installed. While I know it is public money you are trying to save, don't forget there is investment from families as well that is wasted if the system is subpar.

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chevrolux

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#720179 20-Nov-2012 15:58

msukiwi: Otago University are spending $7,000,000.00 Yes that is $7 Million on expanding their wireless network!
http://www.odt.co.nz/campus/university-otago/233473/19m-broadband-upgrade-otago-university
Good contract for someone!

Wow! I have never seen the Otago campus so don't really know how big it is. But I am guessing this is not just going to be a 'wireless upgrade'. It is probably going to involve a hell of a lot of cabling. Upgrading backbone fibres and existing copper outlets can cost quite a few dollars - especially when consultants whack on their fees.

MauriceWinn

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#720259 20-Nov-2012 17:55

Zenbu http://www.Zenbu.net.nz is used by several schools and other government bodies. But most government departments like to spend a LOT of money rather than have a really good system that's cheap, reliable and very easy to deploy and manage.

If you want extra coverage, you can get it from GoWiFi http://www.gowifi.co.nz/combo-wifi-kits/ubiquiti-ns2-zenbu-wireless-extension-outdoor-kit.html Take the Ubiquiti Nanostation/s out of the box, plug it into port 1 on the Zenbu router and hey presto, problem solved.

Print access vouchers and give them to students [or sell them if you want to collect a bit of money to cover the cost of the internet].

Mqurice

chevrolux

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#720289 20-Nov-2012 19:01

Zenbu might be ok for hotels and public wifi but is hardly a good solution for a school.

MauriceWinn

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#720293 20-Nov-2012 19:14

chevrolux: Zenbu might be ok for hotels and public wifi but is hardly a good solution for a school.

Why is that? Those schools and other government places which have it seem very happy with it.

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chevrolux

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#720356 20-Nov-2012 20:48

Well it isnt exactly a full solution if the school wants wireless access to their network. Isn't the whole point of getting zenbu is that it is a simple way for someone to give public wifi that keeps their internal network safe. If i was just wanting basic internet access for guests then zenbu is fine but it wont give access to the internal network.

MauriceWinn

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#720448 20-Nov-2012 23:10

Blackjack specifically said they just want to provide internet access:

chevrolux: Well it isnt exactly a full solution if the school wants wireless access to their network. Isn't the whole point of getting zenbu is that it is a simple way for someone to give public wifi that keeps their internal network safe. If i was just wanting basic internet access for guests then zenbu is fine but it wont give access to the internal network.

Here is what Blackjack wrote: << what we want
Quite simply we only want access to the internet, not the network or student drives. For teachers we all have laptops with wired connections.

We don't care if students show up on the weekends for free internet, the sites they want are mainly blocked (facebook, twitter, torrent, web streaming) (yeah I know they can get around the blocks). If it became a problem we could simply but the access points on timers >>

Zenbu does what he has described. Better and cheaper than anything else.

deadlyllama

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#720658 21-Nov-2012 11:20

MauriceWinn: Blackjack specifically said they just want to provide internet access:
chevrolux: Well it isnt exactly a full solution if the school wants wireless access to their network. Isn't the whole point of getting zenbu is that it is a simple way for someone to give public wifi that keeps their internal network safe. If i was just wanting basic internet access for guests then zenbu is fine but it wont give access to the internal network.

Here is what Blackjack wrote: << what we want
Quite simply we only want access to the internet, not the network or student drives. For teachers we all have laptops with wired connections.

We don't care if students show up on the weekends for free internet, the sites they want are mainly blocked (facebook, twitter, torrent, web streaming) (yeah I know they can get around the blocks). If it became a problem we could simply but the access points on timers >>

Zenbu does what he has described. Better and cheaper than anything else.

Sounds like UniFi gear would have a pretty similar cost .. and is more future proof if the school later wants to e.g. provide a separate VLAN for staff laptops.

vulcannz

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#721002 21-Nov-2012 22:16

MauriceWinn:We don't care if students show up on the weekends for free internet, the sites they want are mainly blocked (facebook, twitter, torrent, web streaming) (yeah I know they can get around the blocks). If it became a problem we could simply but the access points on timers >>

If the network is properly configured this won't happen.

Wactchdog is a fairly basic proxy service, it's security capabilities are out of date by around 8 years. It doesn't really do Layer 7 inspection, and apps will often tunnel. I've even seen porn getting through it (hullo real18.com :) ).

First steps towards deploying BYOD is to properly secure the network. That means:
- decent firewall
- AD integration for user based policies
- decent web filtering
- decent application/Layer 7 filtering
- decent reporting

THEN you can start looking at your BYOD rollout.

What happens if the school doesn't do this right:
- potential exposer to copyright infringement notices, actions, and fines
- potential exposer to bandwidth blowouts and resulting bills
- potential lose of effective internet due to bandwidth blowout leading to rate limiting
- potential expose to reputational and legal liabilities when students access inappropriate content
- prone to misuse (at least one school provider has been involved in DoS attacks)

The reason for paying someone to do a right job up front is to save money and potential ones job.

Back onto the wireless. $3k per AP sounds ridiculous even for an enterprise grade AP - however it may be Xirrus APs, where a single AP acts as 8. Personally I don't like the Xirrus design. Even so you are going to be spending $600-$1000 for enterprise quality APs. Anything less is going to be consumer grade radio's, which means less clients per AP, less range, and less performance.

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