Advanced power meters?

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#648003 29-Jun-2012 08:49

Start quizzing Genesis on exactly what the capabilities are of these meters, will they provide Ethernet connection?, what software is available to see the usage?

Remember, you own the meter board, they just can't turn up and start changing the meter, they must usea registered electrician and provide a coc when completed.
don't let Genesis bully you in to doing this, it has a cost saving benefit for them, does it have at cost saving for you?

richms

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#650624 4-Jul-2012 13:47

Damn, that trial thing would be really useful to show the damn flatmates just how much power they are wasting heating their room to 24+ degrees all the time.

Richard rich.ms

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#650689 4-Jul-2012 15:26

gregmcc: Start quizzing Genesis on exactly what the capabilities are of these meters, will they provide Ethernet connection?, what software is available to see the usage?

Remember, you own the meter board, they just can't turn up and start changing the meter, they must usea registered electrician and provide a coc when completed.
don't let Genesis bully you in to doing this, it has a cost saving benefit for them, does it have at cost saving for you?

Thanks for that. Have just sent them this email: "
I would like to install a smart meter with either wifi or Ethernet connection so that the product has some degree of future proofing. If there is an extra cost please advise what that would be."
Will keep the board posted - any bets on the reply?!

Why work on Wednesday and stuff up 2 good long weekends

Niel

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#650732 4-Jul-2012 16:06

I'll bet the reply will not be technical in any way, but the actual implementation likely power line communications as there are a lot of chipsets to choose from and it is easy to confine the signalling to your power circuit (especially like when you have more than 1 meter). The compliance requirements overlap with normal meter compliance, so there is no major additional testing required. Alternatively it will be a proprietary radio which have been used for ages for drive-by meter reading. But hope I'm wrong and we can get meters that are remotely useful/modern (pun intended).

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#650751 4-Jul-2012 16:46

Yeah, I would like to get access to the instantanious readings from the meter.

ever since they did the advanced meter install I ended up with everything downstream from the 63A breaker, whereas before the 30A fuse that used to be the spapool and was now the shed and garage was taken off before the 63A breaker for the house.

So something that could load shed when it gets over 60A would be great for me since it will be forever away that I can afford to replace the panels in both the house garage and shed with 10kA ones and all the bollux RCD's that are needed now inorder to upgrade the supply to enough for the house.

Richard rich.ms

gzt

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#650977 4-Jul-2012 22:10

richms: Yeah, I would like to get access to the instantanious readings from the meter.

A bit off topic but Current Cost have an optical reader which suits some smart meters. There is a compatibility list and they will advise you about other meters if you send a model number and picture.

www.currentcost.com/product-optismart.html

The NZ reseller is www.smartnow.co.nz. They used to post on Geekzone some time ago.

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#651404 5-Jul-2012 16:17

Well here is the very technical reply from Genesis:

Thank you for your enquiry

Our Advanced Meters are unable to be changed to meet your requirements.

Why work on Wednesday and stuff up 2 good long weekends

richms

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#651412 5-Jul-2012 16:27

gzt:
richms: Yeah, I would like to get access to the instantanious readings from the meter.

A bit off topic but Current Cost have an optical reader which suits some smart meters. There is a compatibility list and they will advise you about other meters if you send a model number and picture.

www.currentcost.com/product-optismart.html

The NZ reseller is www.smartnow.co.nz. They used to post on Geekzone some time ago.

If its the flashing light then it doesnt do anything to tell you about the 2 seperate meters inside the meter. I would like to get that info as well since one of the meters records the house and the other does the shed and the garage which is nothing to do with the flatmates so doesnt get split among us all.

At the moment I have to go out to the meter and open it (not locking it anymore) and press a button till I get the different readings on it. Right PITA compared to looking thru the window at 2 seperate meters with straighfoward easy to read digits on it (not a hard to see non backlit LCD)

Richard rich.ms

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#651442 5-Jul-2012 17:38

Genesis have scheduled an update of our place to a smart meter twice in the last couple of years. Both times the bloke's turned up, gone to the meter box, said "Hmm", taken a photo, made a few notes and disappeared. Never heard anything back.

I figure the longer I hold out, the more interesting the technology might be, so I'm in no hurry for them to actually complete the job!

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#651443 5-Jul-2012 17:49

julianz: Genesis have scheduled an update of our place to a smart meter twice in the last couple of years. Both times the bloke's turned up, gone to the meter box, said "Hmm", taken a photo, made a few notes and disappeared. Never heard anything back.

I figure the longer I hold out, the more interesting the technology might be, so I'm in no hurry for them to actually complete the job!

If you don't be carefuk genesis will eventually replace the meter without letting you know. If you really want to hold out for an actual smart meter then you would be best to send an email to Genesis telling them they no longer have permission to change the meter.

They may tell you all kinds of reasons why it must be done, at the end of the day you own the meterbox and the wiring inside (but not the meters) you as the owner have final say on who can or cannot work inside the meterbox.

They can replace the meter if the old one is faulty, they can re-locate the meter point to outside the property line, but actually doing this is practibility impossible (Unless genesis want to spend some big $$ doing it)

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#651455 5-Jul-2012 18:34

I'd say the chances of them exposing their metering network to your domestic grade network would be between zero and a bit less than that.

Tariffing meters are tricky in as much as they need to be able to stand up in court. If they are not custody transfer rated networks and devices then they can be challenged pretty easily as they are not secure networks. We do metering networks at works and the legal requirements are pretty strict. Opening up the device to an unsecured(by the metering provider) network could make proving network and device security problematic.

You would be amazed at the lengths that some people will go to to steal electricity, especially for growing dope as high power consumption is one of the key indicators.

Given that they haven't got anything to gain by giving you access the meter I can't see why they would. Saying that there is nothing stopping you installing a check meter of your own.

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#651525 5-Jul-2012 21:24

This has absolutely nothing to do with exposing the metering network, at all.

There are already many meters on the market with HAN (home area networking) allowing things like real-time info about power use and patterns, ability for the user to allow load shedding of selected items, etc. Many 3rd party accessories and displays are also available for these meters. HAN capable meters have been installed in NZ here and there, but with the HAN capability disabled or module not installed. The regulator approach taken in NZ (so far) does not mandate any choice in this for the user. Retailers/Utilities could offer that choice but have elected not to.

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#651539 5-Jul-2012 21:46

Interesting, I know when we have tried talking to the utilities about getting access to their tariff meters in the past we have been shut down pretty quickly. We can get access to the data just not directly from the meters.

This is large industrial and commercial users (10 million kWh/pa+).

Also we did end up in court about 10 years ago over a tarrifing without tarrifing rated system. The consultant and building owner ended up writing a big cheque out to the tenants.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just sharing our experiences.

gzt

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#651549 5-Jul-2012 22:04

Handle9: Interesting, I know when we have tried talking to the utilities about getting access to their tariff meters in the past we have been shut down pretty quickly. We can get access to the data just not directly from the meters.

Many meters provide pulse output for precisely that reason. It is a fully isolated output with no communication path or electrical connection into the meter. Specifications tend to be online and can usually be found looking up the model number.

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#651561 5-Jul-2012 22:27

gzt:
Handle9: Interesting, I know when we have tried talking to the utilities about getting access to their tariff meters in the past we have been shut down pretty quickly. We can get access to the data just not directly from the meters.

Many meters provide pulse output for precisely that reason. It is a fully isolated output with no communication path or electrical connection into the meter. Specifications tend to be online and can usually be found looking up the model number.

We do integrate pulse meters but it's ugly and not all that useful. All you get is kWh. That's fine for straight power use but if you want to start doing more involved analysis like looking at power factor and phase imbalance you just don't get the information. We did a metering project last year and found a building had load imbalances on the incomer of something like 45%. The tenants kept fitting out off one phase which loaded it right up.

There's also data integrity issues in if you lose the pulse for whatever reason it can be difficult to track that back. We'll usually put in a local pulse accumulator in this instance and bring it up on comms. At that point it's not far off putting in a decent multifunction meter on modbus with local memory.

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