Home automation, smart devices - tips and recommendations for someone starting out

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#2852307 17-Jan-2022 15:35

Thanks for the replies.

While I haven't quite gone down the rabbit hole yet, I have spent the last couple of weeks thinking, looking around the house, and doing some simple experimentation. I needed to replace some old incandescent bulbs with LEDs so I dipped a toe into the Arlec Grid Connect products. I bought six E27 RGB bulbs, and downloaded the Grid Connect app. It's not as polished as Hue, but it has simple enough functionality. Since installing them, I've watched a range of videos on Youtube about the products, but there aren't too many about the Grid Connect range - as Tuya-compatible products, though, it seems like there is a lot of potential there.

The whole Tuya-HA story is intriguing. I don't have the full picture, but there were some interesting videos from Smart Home channels talking about improvements to the Tuya integration in HA. I saw one from October last year that suggested that the official Tuya integration on HA has now been fully approved by HA (as compared to the HACS v2 integration - which I don't know much about, but it sounds like it was an "unofficial" way of providing functionality not provided through the standard integration). There was also a video suggesting that local access for Tuya via HA is coming (and I think, in one video, there was a method of obtaining keys for local access via a Tuya developer account). All of this makes me sound like I know what I'm talking about, but to be honest I don't really know. I haven't got round to installing HA yet - though I have got my Synology NAS back, and it looks like I might be able to install Docker (another thing I know nothing about) on my NAS and then run HA via Docker. This would give me something to play around with and work out what will work best for me. For now, all I have to play with is a handful of these Grid Connect bulbs and a couple of Hue bulbs I have lying around. But maybe it will clear some stuff up for me about what I need and what I want to do, and whether I can do that via HA.

On top of this, I got an electrician to quote on some small jobs. Some of the recessed light fittings in my lounge are flickering (and may be the reason why the Grid Connect bulbs didn't work properly in there) so I got a quote to fix that, including the option to install proper LED downlights. I've got the quote, and now I'm looking at options to jump right into smart downlights. There is a Deta product available via Bunnings which is only $10 more expensive than the "dumb" lights quoted by the electrician, but provides CCT+RGB and as a Grid Connect product presumably is Tuya compatible. I've been wondering whether I could purchase these retail and ask the electrician to install. Provided Tuya would actually play nice with HA down the road (hence my research in this area above), this could be a reasonably good investment. This led me to look at Deta smart switches, which I could get installed by the electrician at the same time, but I haven't found out too much about those yet. When I was briefing the electrician for the scope of works I wanted quotes on, she suggested I look at PDL Iconic switches, but I couldn't find much about the Iconic range to indicate what type of system it uses, and how it would integrate with HA or other smart systems. I also stumbled on something called the Flic switch. They look interesting - a bit like an Amazon Dash button - but I'm guessing the site is priced in US dollars, meaning switches would probably cost up to $40 each, which could get quite pricey for the whole house.

I guess the questions I'm left with are fairly general. For instance, is running HA in Docker on a Synology NAS a good idea? What is the current thinking about Tuya integration in HA - are the issues being resolved? What about local vs cloud access? If the Grid Connect/Tuya products are problematic, what is a good alternative light product? I haven't looked into the Shelly option in depth, but if I wanted to dip a toe in there for a single light fitting, which relay would I buy and is it simple/legal for a homeowner to install themselves?

eonsim

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#2852374 17-Jan-2022 17:57

Couple of comments:

If your looking at getting an electrician in you might as well add some Shelly relay units to control the lights and or power sockets (ie Spa or Pool). That would allow you to use normal LED bulbs (white only) as though they were smart bulbs (voice on off, timers, schedules etc) and control them from google home/alexa. They've got a mix of modules including some that are suitable if you want to use dimmers (though need dimmer LEDs) and can easily be added behind your current lights switches or power sockets. Some of the relay's feature power monitoring if that interests you, or you could get the Electrician to install a Shelly EM on your mains circuit to get whole house power monitoring (and HA can import all the data if you want to track power usage, and automate based on that). You can combine them with there motion sensors to do things like turn lights on when you enter a room etc. Also they replace the need for smart plugs if installed in sockets, which is very useful for outdoor stuff where you don't really want a non-water proof smart plug added.

For home assistant, if you've got the budget I highly recommend going out and getting a basic model raspberry pi 4 (~160 for a stater kit) and case, then installing HA on that and trying it out. Much easier setup and it's all managed automatically or through in app management interfaces, easy to move around and experiment with.

As far as I'm aware the main difference between the previous HACS Tuya V2 and HA Tuya V2 is they cleaned up the code base, and added a few more things to make it integrate more cleanly, as for local control who knows. LocalTuya or TuyaLocal can be used at the moment with extracted keys to control some Tuya compatible gear.

If you want to make a other wise dumb heat pump smart have a look at Sensibo (works with HA), effectively a wifi remote control for your heat pump. Alternatively there are some cheaper similar chinese systems like the broadlink RMs but they can require more setup.

Lizard1977

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#2853203 19-Jan-2022 09:47

I managed to get HA up and running within Docker on my Synology NAS. Pleasingly, it went remarkably smoothly given my ignorance about either Docker or HA. I went through configuration and managed to get my couple of Hue devices and Tuya devices set up. While there's still a lot to explore and understand, it's pretty straightforward so far.

I tried to set up an automation where my kitchen lights would come on at sunset, but it returned an error when I tried to save it - something unhelpful about a malformed something or other (it was 11pm any my brain was running on fumes) so I'll need to dig more deeply into some tutorials about using HA. But one thing I was pleased about was a cheeky little experiement controlling the Tuya lights with a Hue dimmer switch. Setting up an automation where a long press on the first button activates a scene involving the Tuya lights worked. First time was pretty slow - I'm guessing it's the cloud introducing a delay - but subsequent presses were a little faster. One of the things I want to explore is setting up local access, but I'll need to do more research on that.

The apparent seamlessness of using these Tuya lights in HA got me wondering why people are so concerned with flashing them with Tasmota. I'm not familiar with Tasmota so maybe it offers something I'm not aware of, or maybe there are some big limitations with Tuya. But from my very minimal experience (measured in minutes), the standard Tuya configuration and integration seems to be fine. What am I missing?

There are lots of things still to explore with HA - how automations work, setting up scenes, triggers, etc - but I'm also curious about adding more devices to the network to explore the functionality. For instance, buttons/switches (similar to the Flic switch I linked to above), door or motion sensors, and so on. Where do people recommend looking for these (and what brand/platform to look for)? Bunnings is convenient with their Grid Connect/Tuya products, but is there a website that stocks a good range of different products?

Another thing I'm curious about is integration with Apple and Amazon products. I have an iPhone, but that's about as far as my Homekit world extends, and two Alexa smart speakers. One thing that would be cool to setup is a geofence trigger where certain scenes are activated either when I come home or dependent on when my phone is within the property (probably determined by connection to my wifi). Again, it was late last night so I wasn't as fresh as I should be, but I couldn't work out how to integrate HA with my iPhone or control devices with Alexa. Can anyone point me to a clear guide about either of those things?

eonsim

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#2854400 20-Jan-2022 21:29

You want to install the Home Assistant companion app on your phone. You'll then either need to set up a home assistant cloud account (paid for) or some other way of allowing remote access to your HA server in your home network from your phone (VPN, or port forwarding + HTTPS + dynamic dns).

You then point the phone app at the home assistant server and it will set up a set of sensors for your phone in HA (Temperature, Battery, Location etc). On the map in Home Assistant settings define the home location, work and any other important ones. Then in the people interface create a person for each person you want to track, and add that persons phone (or smart watch or similar of using BLE beacons) to the account as it's tracker.

Each person will get a person.name entity created for them, for which the status will be either one of the predefined locations you created (Work, home etc) or away. You'll need to read up a bit more about the exact ins and outs of how the tracking works I assume GPS or BLE beacon but am not exactly sure.

Once you've got the person.entity_id though you can start to use that in automations.

fe31nz

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#2854436 21-Jan-2022 02:25

There is a serious problem with using a phone for person / presence detection with HA - most phones these days do battery optimisation that shuts down the HA app or disconnects WiFi connections, so might find your house alarm suddenly being set with you still inside the house. On some phones you can disable these battery optimisations, but doing so generally causes a noticeable battery drain. And on some phones there is no way to stop battery optimisations.

kelly42

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#2854555 21-Jan-2022 12:07

I'm watching this thread with interest - I am starting a reno in about 3 weeks and am exploring how I can tie together the existing alarm, existing gate, new heat pump, and new lighting. I have Google Home throughout my house, a couple of Hue lights, a Synology NAS (media server), and a spare Raspberry Pi sitting around. I hadn't heard of Home Assistant (or Shelly) but this looks amazing!

Key for me is having the system accessible by kids without phones (or with locked phones; we're pretty strict on screen time limits and use Google Family Link to good effect here). The Google Home Hub with screen has been really useful to allow the kids to turn lights on and off easily via screen rather than audio, though that works too. Sometimes you're deep in a conversation and don't want to shush everyone in the vicinity so you can speak to your smart speaker. ;)

Do any of you know what kind of relay is needed to be able to control my RIB gate motor? I've asked some gate companies about this and have gotten weak/no responses.

Everyone is new sometime.

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Lizard1977

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#2854690 21-Jan-2022 15:53

I'm thinking ahead to the long weekend, and what I may be able to get into with my new HA installation and limited range of devices. I just re-read the earlier posts in this thread, and some of it is starting to make more sense as my knowledge grows. But I wanted to check a few things to make sure I understand it.

There were comments about Tuya devices being flashed to Tasmota (either OTA or via more complex solutions), but I wasn't clear why. From what I think I now understand, this was about being able to operate those Tuya devices locally rather than relying on the cloud. One of the videos I stumbled on earlier this week was a way to enable local control of Tuya devices through the LocalTuya integration and using an IoT Developer account from Tuya to acquire the local keys for my devices. I haven't done this yet - still learning to walk - but is this a suitable alternative to the whole Tasmota-flashing thing?

I've got a quote from my electrician to fix the flickering lights in my lounge by replacing the recessed lights with LED downlights. I've been going back and forth about whether to stay with ordinary LED downlights, and upgrade to a smart switch later on (either a Shelly relay - though I still haven't wrapped my head around that idea yet - or something like the Deta smart switch), or install smart downlights and leave the ordinary wall switch in place (possibly upgraded to a smart switch down the road). As far as I can work out, the main advantage of the smart switch/dumb lights approach is that the position of the switch (on/off) doesn't screw up the automation). With my Hue lights and Hue dimmer switch this wasn't much of a problem, as the few people in my house were well trained not to touch the original wall switch. With the new range of smart lights I'm considering, there isn't really an equivalent to the Hue Dimmer Switch so a new in-wall smart switch would probably be a good idea. I did discover that a Hue Dimmer Switch can be configured to control Tuya lights through HA, though there may be a delay (which possibly could be addressed via LocalTuya?), but if I go for smart lights/dumb switch, then I'd really need some kind of cheap, interim smart switch or have to make the leap with an in-wall smart switch and I haven't really settled on what would work best. Also, in my house, the position of existing wall switches isn't always convenient, so wireless smart switches like the Hue Dimmer Switch are appealing because I can add functionality around the room without having to pay an electrician to add new switches. If I did opt for dumb lights, am I allowed to install a smart switch in place of the existing dumb wall switch, or do I need to get an electrician to do this for me? And also, how simple would such a swap-over be? I presume it's really just matching like for like with the existing Line, Neutral and Ground wires. If I can install a smart switch easily myself later on, then it might be simplest to get the electrician to just fix in the new LED downlights and I can add smarts myself later on.

Finally, does anyone have any knowledge about the Arlec Grid Connect hubs that Bunnings sell? With a few Grid Connect products in my house now (but all connected via wifi) I was looking at the starter pack which includes a hub, a motion sensor, a temp/humidity sensor, and a contact sensor for $105. This seemed like a cost-effective sampler pack, but it seems like the Hub links devices together over Bluetooth to a distance of 10 metres. Does this mean you need to dot multiple hubs around the house to reach all the devices? For instance, if you have a contact sensor at the back door, do you need to have a hub in that room? If so, with each hub costing $42, it would become costly if you effectively needed one in each room for all your different devices.

mattenz

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#2854698 21-Jan-2022 17:02

I think it's debatable as to whether you're allowed to install a Shelly yourself. Some would argue it's an appliance, but then what is a normal relay switch?

Lizard1977

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#2854714 21-Jan-2022 17:16

I watched a video about installing a Shelly relay (on a test board, not a "real-life" scenario) and it looked more complicated than I would be comfortable with. But a standard light switch I can do (and have done) myself without any real problems. I would hope its the same for a smart switch, but I'm not entirely sure, especially as they are sold off the shelf at places like Bunnings.

mattenz

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#2854716 21-Jan-2022 17:24

I think it's straightforward if you have neutral wires to the switch, and orthodox wiring, but older NZ houses tend to have neither!

Lizard1977

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#2854720 21-Jan-2022 17:29

So what is the deal with neutral wires then? I've seen a few products online which say "no neutral wire needed!" but I wasn't sure what is the implication of having it/not having it? And does a 1960s state house qualify as an "older house" in this context?

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mattenz

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#2854724 21-Jan-2022 17:43

(Obligatory not an electrician).

Modern standards are to switch the light between neutral and live, but in the past it was common for a light switch to simply switch the live wire. Smart switches need constant power, which is quite difficult to provide in that configuration without the light bulb also being constantly powered, which limits your options a bit.

1960s would be old, the wiring has been played with so much, circuits extended with evolving wiring standards that it can be just a headache when you open up a switch and find a perplexing variety of wires going in and out of it.

Lizard1977

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#2856470 26-Jan-2022 09:39

I decided to dive into Local Tuya last night, but struck upon a problem with Home Assistant I hadn't realised until now.

I installed Home Assistant as a container in Docker on my Synology NAS. That seemed like a great approach to me - my NAS is always on, relatively low power. However, I hadn't appreciated the limitations of this approach. It seems that in order to install Local Tuya I need to have HACS installed, and to have the HACS addon I need to use the Supervisor, but this isn't available in the HA container in Docker (or, at least, it's a very complicated workaround that I wasn't able to fathom at 10.30pm last night). So it seems like I need to go the HassOS route after all, which means getting a RPi4 ($129 from Jaycar) or run a VM (which would be very power hungry on my PC). I think I'll need to go the RPi route unless anyone can suggest an alternative that I've missed here.

On the plus side, I've managed to get some sun-based automations working by reading through the tutorials. It's definitely not as intuitive as more polished apps like Hue, but by the same token it is clearly more configurable and powerful. I also added another Hue Dimmer switch I found lying around, added it through Hue and was able to configure it to work as a switch for my Tuya lights in the kitchen. There is a huge lag of several seconds, especially when they switch hasn't been used for a little while - but I'm hoping that Local Tuya will address that.

sultanoswing

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#2856578 26-Jan-2022 12:24

Lizard1977:

I think I'll need to go the RPi route unless anyone can suggest an alternative that I've missed here.

Yeah - that's a pain re: supervisor and HACS.

I run my HA on a VM in an intel NUC. Pick one of those up cheap. Much more powerful than a Pi - things like backups and restarts are much speedier, as is the web GUI.

That said, the Pi4 is a simple, well-trodden route with good forum support since it's a common install. Low power use too. The only advice I'd gievon a Pi install would be to spend a little more and boot and run your Pi off an SSD or NVMe drive (over the USB port). Plenty of tutorials on how, and a NVMe drive and USB enclosure won't set you back that much (mind you, it narrows the price to closer to a second-hand NUC). The reason for this is that HA does a lot of disk writes, which aren't good for microSD card longevity and reliability. As they say, choose your own adventure.

eonsim

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#2856669 26-Jan-2022 14:40

Lizard1977:

It seems that in order to install Local Tuya I need to have HACS installed, and to have the HACS addon I need to use the Supervisor, but this isn't available in the HA container in Docker (or, at least, it's a very complicated workaround that I wasn't able to fathom at 10.30pm last night).

Uhm from what I remember installing HACS in docker is really easy, that is how I've got things set up and have no memory of issues installing hacs.

Assuming you have terminal access to the box hosting HA, you can either run the install script on the host OS or connect to the docker terminal and run it there. See option 1 and 2 under container settings from https://hacs.xyz/docs/setup/download

Supervisor and the extended app store/application interface though certainly aren't available in the container and you would need to go either the VM or native install route (rPi) if you want those.

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