Cheap alternative to Energizer (single use only pls)?

Forums › Gadgets, robotics, home automation, electronics (including wearables) › Cheap alternative to Energizer (single use only pls)?

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networkn

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#1461493 5-Jan-2016 11:42

RUKI: I found locally purchased dry batteries being made in China and not lasting long enough.

If anyone (e.g. educational facility, university or just private curious person) would like to run a comparative scientific test - I will be more than happy to volunteer with my 14-20-Channel Battery Capacity Analyser(s)

www.hybrids.co.nz

You supply me with up to 20 batteries of the same voltage and form-factor - whether they are 1.5 (AA or AAA) or 9V does not matter:

I can put them all simultaneously under the same load (can use electronic load) and record "Video of the Race" seeing live which one comes (drains) first.
At the end of the test we will have a comparative graphs/bars of all batteries - voltage and capacity measurements.
We can even make a fun out of it by you putting bids ($1) of which battery comes (drains) first - suggest the winning pool of money goes to the person supplying the batteries and the winner who made the right prediction gets the "wizard" title...

=====

What I am doing when I am in need of the battery for whatever purpose:
- Use of 18650 Li-Ion batteries (have plenty) as a source
- Use DC-DC small form factor step down converters from car chargers (same schematics is used everywhere) which I modify myself (e.g. 3, 5, 4.5, 7,2, 6, 9, 12 V is easy)
- use Velcro self-adhesive to attach battery to device if that can't be inserted inside

e.g. during this Christmas break - I have modified Dolphin Flashlight - converted it into 3-in-1 device by doing this:

- inserted 10 batteries 5P2S x 18650 Li-Ion inside - making it 7.2 10 AH power bank to power my 7.2V cordless drill
- inserted 7805 IC (rated at about 1.5A) with couple of caps and aluminium heat sink inside to convert 7.2 into 5V to power the light bulb (4.8V 0.78A) and 2xUSB sockets
- inserted small power switch and double USB front plug from the old PC for cell phone charging
- inserted temperature sensor and took wires with plugs out for Li-Ion battery balance charging by one of my Li-ion chargers

All above actually was 1/2 day fun creation.

Note: Modification of car charger into any DC voltage takes about 10 minutes...
78XX IC are fixed voltage regulators - can be found in many Telco/IT equipment – the one for this project came from some old network adapter..

This sounds cool and an excellent offer thanks. I am sure this will get lots of attention.

I am happy to buy some of the more expensive batteries. Perhaps lets get a list of the batteries we want to have tested, see who has them already and see who is prepared to sponsor the rest.

I think some of the local brands that have longevity (Not the ones that are imported once under some dodgy name for a sale on 1-day.

Batman

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#1461526 5-Jan-2016 12:04

When you say "local brands" you mean the branded stuff sold in proper shops? I didn't know we made batteries here.

And RUKI you are based in Auckland correct?

marshalleq

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#1461530 5-Jan-2016 12:11

Actually, I purchased something that is totally magic from Jaycar. It recharges non-rechargeable batteries. It works remarkably well. It has a charging technology that charges at a rate that keeps that batteries cool, but also (unlike their terrible sales people will tell you) it officially charges ordinary batteries too. Got mine on special for about $29 I think. Then you get the best of both worlds, cheap batteries that are re-usable. :)

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/Power-Products-Electrical/Charging/Ni-MH-Ni-Cd-Chargers/Alkaline-Ni-Cd-Ni-MH-Battery-Charger/p/MB3568

https://www.tech-knowhow.com

networkn

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#1461537 5-Jan-2016 12:16

marshalleq: Actually, I purchased something that is totally magic from Jaycar. It recharges non-rechargeable batteries. It works remarkably well. It has a charging technology that charges at a rate that keeps that batteries cool, but also (unlike their terrible sales people will tell you) it officially charges ordinary batteries too. Got mine on special for about $29 I think. Then you get the best of both worlds, cheap batteries that are re-usable. :)

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/Power-Products-Electrical/Charging/Ni-MH-Ni-Cd-Chargers/Alkaline-Ni-Cd-Ni-MH-Battery-Charger/p/MB3568

It sounds like if you get this wrong you could face yourself an explosion of hot acid?

marshalleq

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#1461539 5-Jan-2016 12:18

LOL. I have accidentally put a wrong battery in a charger before. It leaked (not exploded) onto the charger. Given this is designed to do this it's quite different. Anyway, I have one and it works quite well. Have had it for about 8 months or so. They put the price down because exactly as you say, people don't trust it!

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networkn

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#1461541 5-Jan-2016 12:21

marshalleq: LOL. I have accidentally put a wrong battery in a charger before. It leaked (not exploded) onto the charger. Given this is designed to do this it's quite different. Anyway, I have one and it works quite well. Have had it for about 8 months or so. They put the price down because exactly as you say, people don't trust it!

Question then, do all AA batteries take charge @ the same rate? There is no risk to the battery or charger if it charges at the "wrong" rate?

If you buy the super expensive batteries that supposedly last a long time, when you recharge them do they last a similarly long time? How long do they take to charge?

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marshalleq

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#1461565 5-Jan-2016 12:25

The charger (like all modern chargers now - though these are annoyingly hard to get in NZ) have things such as dv/dt to take care of all of this. As opposed to the common ones at the supermarket (or even most in Jaycar) which just send a dumb charge and at most turn off after a number of hours.

These ones turn off when it detects an increase in heat etc giving an optimum charge each time. For this reason, the standard alkalines actually charge quicker than standard rechargeables as they don't take quite as much charge. It all depends on the quality of battery you put in, but it figures it all out. If it's super quick, then the battery probably isn't going to last. Quality batteries like energizer, duracell etc work best. Ironically Energizer is the least good for recharging which I assume means their materials aren't as good (they're definately lighter). But basically just try some - most people have quite a few spares lying around the house.

Honestly, I haven't had to buy new batteries since I got this thing. It's pretty awesome. :)

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Wade

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#1461586 5-Jan-2016 12:38

I buy the Maxlife branded alkalines from OfficeMax for work and they seem to work just as well as any name brand alkaline. They are not bargain basement cheap but comparatively speaking they are quite cost effective

marshalleq

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#1461842 5-Jan-2016 18:22

Thanks Wade I shall remember that the next time I need some. I actually rummaged through the work throw out bin to get all the dead batteries and used those, but next time I'll buy my own. Probably in a few years LOL.

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RUKI

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#1461943 5-Jan-2016 21:18

joker97: When you say "local brands" you mean the branded stuff sold in proper shops? ...

And RUKI you are based in Auckland correct?

Yes, I am in Auckland.
As for the tests - I once offered "Batteriser" to test their "product" after reading how Dave from AUS smashed scientifically it on his EEVblog on YouTube and here:

http://www.eevblog.com/2015/06/07/the-batteriser-explained/

As an Engineer I found his arguments correct, but still lacking visual practical evidence which can easily be provided with the help of the screen captured video while my Analyser is running...

I guess they (Batteriser) decided not to have the last nail in their coffin by running the practical tests :-)

The whole idea I offered them was similar - they decide which batteries to buy from the supermarket (any brand they want), they decide which current to be used as a drain current (e.g. something like in XBOX remote or similar) and the test will prove or otherwise their claims...

=============

As for NiMH rechargeable AA & AAA - the problem with those is the cheap chargers sold in supermarkets. They overheat and degrade batteries...
I have built "Burp" charger to try the concept of "pulse negative charging" of NiMH batteries - but that is expensive and not practical for many people.

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#1466897 10-Jan-2016 09:54

RUKI:

Note: Modification of car charger into any DC voltage takes about 10 minutes...
78XX IC are fixed voltage regulators - can be found in many Telco/IT equipment – the one for this project came from some old network adapter..

Just an idea - but how about using a 3-pin switching voltage regulator for better efficiency rather than the stock standard 78xx series ?

Something like http://www.gravitech.us/35v1aswvore.html

The 78xx series drops voltage by wasting heat.

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#1466950 10-Jan-2016 12:51

marshalleq: Thanks Wade I shall remember that the next time I need some. I actually rummaged through the work throw out bin to get all the dead batteries and used those, but next time I'll buy my own. Probably in a few years LOL.

Yes I always keep a set of AAA's & AA's in my work laptop bag as spares for KB/Mouse and they seem to get raided quite regularly for 'kids' use. A pair of these Maxlife AAA's in my work mouse seem to last 3 or 4 months which isn't bad given the hammering it gets each and every day :P

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#1467356 11-Jan-2016 09:29

SepticSceptic:
... how about using a 3-pin switching voltage regulator for better efficiency rather than the stock standard 78xx series ?
.

.
7805 was just a sample for those who do not want to bother with mods as it is the simpliest way to get fixed voltage by using one chip with 2 caps.

You can use other ICs with wide regulation range and high efficiency - e.g. those used in car chargers.
Tha DC-DC converter from car charger is widely available, cost about $2 and can be modified into 3V or 4.5 or 6V for kid's remote or other applications.
One should check the current in the target device as those ISc can only deliver up to about 500mA.

I am too busy these days with building another switching power constant current High Voltage Charger for Prius battery and building myself few back up power banks using Li-Po batteries.

But on my "to do" list is to:

attach my Battery Analyser to the XBOX controller powered by the constant voltage supply (3V DC) and
run random game with a lot of vibration (so that extra current is drained from the battery)
to see what is the actual average current drained during operating XBOX remote.
to use test results as a reference
to run comparative test of dry batteries form various suppliers on my multichannel Capacity Battery Analyser

Point is: content of almost everything we buy nowadays is labeled - e.g. gramms of rice, litres of gas, even rechargable batteries have capacity labeled (in AH).

But: dry batteries have absolutely no indication of the energy they can release.

Checked on Friday dry batteries in Surplustronics - the only thing on the label of those AA, AAA is 1.5V and what they are "suitable for" - PDAs, Games. If you can fit those into device which was designed to accept that size does not make them "suitable" IMO

No indication of the maximum allowed current, no capacity, no milliwatthours, absolutely nothing which could be indicative of how long they would last... :-(
The same with 2016, 2025, 2032 and other 3V dry cell batteries. They seems to run out of juice quite quickly...

Any manufacturer nowadays can make dry battery with minimum capacity as long as it is 1.5V at the sales point and when that battery will run TV remote for just 5 minutes only they can get away with it????

How much we should ask in advance from Energizer, BP and others for NOT Running Blame and Shame test on their dry batteries? $$1 Million? $$10 Million? Any reps here from any dry battery brands?

richms

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#1467365 11-Jan-2016 09:47

More baffling to me is how they still sell carbon zinc cells, and at a higher price than the budget alkalines.

Many people I know have bought the "expenive everready" batteries only to find their camera will barely turn on an extend the lens before declaring them dead. And wonder why. After all they cost $3.50 for 4 of them, whereas the other cheaper ones were only $2 for 4 so obviously cant be as good.

Richard rich.ms

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#1468346 12-Jan-2016 11:52

Made a bit of research on comparative tests being done on AA Dry batteries yesterday. Found a few.
Those tests being done in USA and UK.
Also found Datasheets for AA Duracell and Energiser (not impressed as according to those the capacity would be quite low at everage currents modern "toys" and devices would require).
Apart from one specific test in US (5 simultaneously) all tests were conducted on individual batteries one by one, i.e. that is not strict comparison as discharge currents and temperature may have not been the same.
Also the chosen discharge currents in those tests were abstruct and not something you can relate to - e.g. XBOX remote controller drains much more then say TV remote.
Also the cut-off voltage was also abstruct (e.g. 0.8V) and not related to an actual "toys". Some devices may stop working when battery drops below 1.1V, some - below 0.9, etc. Tests has to be specific.

I will check what minumum voltage XBOX controller accepts before it stops working and loose connection with console.

I've chosen XBOX as that is power hungry toy, it uses 2 x AA, I have one and the load test will not take forever vs test with some other remotes.

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