Smart Replacement for Central Heating Thermostat

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#3229833 13-May-2024 15:51

bigreddog:

I have a Shelly 1L v2 here not required if you're after one. Is used, but worked fine, just replaced with a Shelly 2.5 to get an additional circuit controlled.

Let me know if interested

That's very kind, @bigreddog - are you in Auckland? I have a surplus dimmer and a 2.5 I would happily swap.

bigreddog

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#3229835 13-May-2024 15:55

Am in Tauranga, but regularly up there for work. I can always use another Dimmer if you're happy with a swap? Will send you a PM

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sir1963

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#3245270 6-Jun-2024 14:22

davidcole:

You can get shellys into homebridge. I think it has a plugin....or can use mqtt. So I woudn't let that stop you.

The driver should be a working thermostat...the secondary should be homekit compatibility - IMO. the only influence technology should have is - do I want local or cloud based.

For me its the opposite requirement, if it does not work with Apples Homekit/Matter then I have zero interest.

And I do NOT want and will NOT "sign up" for anyones app that you have to use first to get the thing working.

I do NOT want the thing the "phone home" to where ever.

Until I can get this, my house will remain dumb, marketing people who believe they are entitled to your life information can go jump in a lake.

I will NOT have google/amazon stuff in my house, I want the product, I do not want to BE the product. (And yes I trust Apple more than others).

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#3245284 6-Jun-2024 15:29

I don’t trust any vendors platform long enough to go all in on one. Either. HomeKit, Google or Amazon.

Primary for me is home assistant. Which doesn’t expose anything - unless I do it. Which I choose to do via HomeKit for some items.

Matter/thread hasn’t proven itself yet

Previously known as psycik

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Handle9

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#3245326 6-Jun-2024 17:36

sir1963:
davidcole:

You can get shellys into homebridge. I think it has a plugin....or can use mqtt. So I woudn't let that stop you.

The driver should be a working thermostat...the secondary should be homekit compatibility - IMO. the only influence technology should have is - do I want local or cloud based.

For me its the opposite requirement, if it does not work with Apples Homekit/Matter then I have zero interest.

And I do NOT want and will NOT "sign up" for anyones app that you have to use first to get the thing working.

I do NOT want the thing the "phone home" to where ever.

Until I can get this, my house will remain dumb, marketing people who believe they are entitled to your life information can go jump in a lake.

I will NOT have google/amazon stuff in my house, I want the product, I do not want to BE the product. (And yes I trust Apple more than others).

Huh?

Shelly will run fully local. MQTT is a network protocol and widely used for fully local control. It’s nothing to do with Google or Amazon.

sir1963

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#3245332 6-Jun-2024 17:46

Handle9:
Huh?

Shelly will run fully local. MQTT is a network protocol and widely used for fully local control. It’s nothing to do with Google or Amazon.

Its just yet another device to set up, configure, keep updated...blah blah blah... I am no longer interested in bodging stuff together.
Give me something simple, clean , and easy so the wife can do what she need/wants too.

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#3245351 6-Jun-2024 18:02

sir1963:
Handle9:
Huh?

Shelly will run fully local. MQTT is a network protocol and widely used for fully local control. It’s nothing to do with Google or Amazon.

Its just yet another device to set up, configure, keep updated...blah blah blah... I am no longer interested in bodging stuff together.
Give me something simple, clean , and easy so the wife can do what she need/wants too.

You still have to setup, configure and keep updated HomeKit devices. My thermostats are HomeKit enabled but they still require all of that.

It sounds like home automation isn’t for you at all.

johno1234

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#3245352 6-Jun-2024 18:03

I flashed some Shelly devices with homekitShelly firmware so they are now native homekit devices. I assume they are not being monitored by the Chicoms.

I also have some Tuya temperature/humidity sensors which are presented as is to homekit by HomeBridge. Assume the Chicoms are actively monitoring the temperature and humidity in the house and observing me with the hidden camera in the sensors.

It's all largely just experimentation and tinkering at this stage but eventually I hope to use T/H sensors to override the wall thermostat and control the central heating by pretending to be the thermostat.

johno1234

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#3245353 6-Jun-2024 18:05

Handle9: You still have to setup, configure and keep updated HomeKit devices. My thermostats are HomeKit enabled but they still require all of that.

It sounds like home automation isn’t for you at all.

Apologies if I already asked this - but what HK thermostats are you using? Looked at some such as Eve - they were a lot more expensive than the Tuya cheapies which appear to work albeit not natively with HK.

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#3245357 6-Jun-2024 18:11

johno1234:
Handle9: You still have to setup, configure and keep updated HomeKit devices. My thermostats are HomeKit enabled but they still require all of that.

It sounds like home automation isn’t for you at all.

Apologies if I already asked this - but what HK thermostats are you using? Looked at some such as Eve - they were a lot more expensive than the Tuya cheapies which appear to work albeit not natively with HK.

I’m using Ecobee. They aren’t really suitable for your application as they are not the right voltage and are probably a bit overkill for what you are doing. You’d need interposing relays and a transformer.

I’ve got around 50kW of cooling running off 4 thermostats so it was worth the cost for me. They support their own, rather expensive, remote sensors as well.

johno1234

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#3245363 6-Jun-2024 18:21

OK thanks.

I haven't proven yet exactly how our old wall thermometer works but can see it does have mains voltage aboard and looks like it only has 2 wires. This appears to be a conventional setup for older thermostats and if it simply closes a switch to join the two wires I should be able to put a Shelly 1L in parallel with it so the heating can be activated by either the old wall thermostat or the Shelly. Then I can turn the thermostat down to nothing use a scene to run the heating but still turn up the thermostat as a manual override if necessary.

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#3245370 6-Jun-2024 18:35

johno1234:
OK thanks.

I haven't proven yet exactly how our old wall thermometer works but can see it does have mains voltage aboard and looks like it only has 2 wires. This appears to be a conventional setup for older thermostats and if it simply closes a switch to join the two wires I should be able to put a Shelly 1L in parallel with it so the heating can be activated by either the old wall thermostat or the Shelly. Then I can turn the thermostat down to nothing use a scene to run the heating but still turn up the thermostat as a manual override if necessary.

Your existing thermostat is a thermostat. They all work the same way. On until they get to setpoint + hysteresis. Off until they get to setpoint - hysteresis.

johno1234

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#3245483 6-Jun-2024 21:35

Yes but some are low voltage, some are line voltage. Some are 2 wire, some are 4 wire.

I think this one is actuated by a bimetallic coil. Some use a pneumatic bellows and so on.

I should be able to effect the hysteresis with a HomeKit shortcut scene.

sir1963

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#3245568 7-Jun-2024 09:29

Handle9:

You still have to setup, configure and keep updated HomeKit devices. My thermostats are HomeKit enabled but they still require all of that.

It sounds like home automation isn’t for you at all.

ATM I agree HA may not be for me.... but it should be.

I want something that just works, has one front end, is easy to configure for non geeks.
Everyone is looking for lock-in, ad revenue, phone home, tracking, proprietary tech etc in the INMO of being bought out for insane sums by one of the big players.
Yes there is open stuff, but too much of that is by geeks for geeks. Too much tech is still at the "program the VCR" level of consumer usability.

I have a lot of tech at home that I regularly do SW updates on, and some I don't bother with (eg "smart" TVs, I have Apple TVs).

It should be considered part of the house, ie in 20 years time you can still get new parts for it from multiple suppliers. Why spend a huge sum of money on something you will need to replace every 10 years (or less). The motion detectors for my house are about 20 years old, and I have had to replace some of them with something that just works in their place, easy!

tech churn, planned obsolesce etc is NOT there for the consumers benefit, its for the benefit of those who get to sell you new stuff time and time again, adding to the waste stream.

johno1234

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#3245571 7-Jun-2024 09:38

It is always a challenge to close the gap from tech to appliance. Home PVR stuff has been able to deliver great technology for ages, but has been just too hard for most users and needs a geek in the house. Finally we see AppleTV and others (along with Ski decoders) that dumb it down sufficiently that just about anyone can live with it.

Not quite there with home automation. Start requiring multiple hubs, and it's still too hard. No average household will cope with setting up a Pi. They might cope with setting up an AppleTV and homekit/matter accessories as the scanning to add option does make it pretty easy.

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