Apple to use ARM application processors in laptops?

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#2512330 25-Jun-2020 16:42

alasta:
Geektastic:

OOI, as long as it does what it says on the tin, who would care what chip was in it and why?

Generally I wouldn't care, but I like the idea of more/better software becoming available as a result of developers being able to easily port between Apple's different platforms.

That and much better battery life on laptops

Handle9

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#2512333 25-Jun-2020 16:48

sir1963:
Handle9:

Lol. I really don't think a lack of VDI will kill iphone sales.

If that's all Apple is interested in then, sure.

Apple isn't going to get "killed" by VDI generally or on the Mac. It's got its use case but mobile computing is far more significant than VDI will ever be.

Most users don't need anything more powerful than a NUC anyway and the hassle of virtual environments is more than the benefits for most users. I use a virtual client daily (mostly for intranet access on a BYOD) and the experience is substandard compared to my local environment.

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#2512394 25-Jun-2020 17:40

Can someone explain VDI to me. Is it more or different than a remote desktop setup?

I am already using Azure and Window Server, as well as Amazon Workspace with a Windows 10 install from my Mac for day to day work. Don't see that changing with an ARM Mac.

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#2512462 25-Jun-2020 18:58

Pretty easy to google, but here is VM Ware’s definition:

Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) refers to the use of virtual machines to provide and manage virtual desktops.VDI hosts desktop environments on a centralized server and deploys them to end-users on request.

Also fairly easy to see why this isn’t relevant for a consumer products business.

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#2512464 25-Jun-2020 19:02

jarledb:

Can someone explain VDI to me. Is it more or different than a remote desktop setup?

I am already using Azure and Window Server, as well as Amazon Workspace with a Windows 10 install from my Mac for day to day work. Don't see that changing with an ARM Mac.

It's effectively a remote desktop deployed via a client.

I use a Citrix implementation most days. I login via our SSO infrastructure with MFA and then get a windows client via Citrix Receiver. It's OK to use but the latency and interruptions are painful. The benefits are I can use my own hardware for most Office 365 related tasks and just use the Virtual Client when I need corporate infrastructure.

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#2512534 25-Jun-2020 22:30

alasta:

Geektastic:

OOI, as long as it does what it says on the tin, who would care what chip was in it and why?

Generally I wouldn't care, but I like the idea of more/better software becoming available as a result of developers being able to easily port between Apple's different platforms.

Maybe. I do hope we do not just get iPhone apps on the desktop...!

I do not expect to change my iMac Pro for at least 5 years so they will have plenty of time to wow me in the meantime!

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#2512536 25-Jun-2020 22:33

Geektastic:

alasta:

Generally I wouldn't care, but I like the idea of more/better software becoming available as a result of developers being able to easily port between Apple's different platforms.

Maybe. I do hope we do not just get iPhone apps on the desktop...!

I do not expect to change my iMac Pro for at least 5 years so they will have plenty of time to wow me in the meantime!

Getting iPhone apps on the desktop is cute but meh...

Mac apps on an iPad is much more interesting.

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#2512548 26-Jun-2020 00:51

Geektastic:

Maybe. I do hope we do not just get iPhone apps on the desktop...!

I do not expect to change my iMac Pro for at least 5 years so they will have plenty of time to wow me in the meantime!

The full development suite is there with Xcode, and developers can fairly easily create install files for both Intel and Apple Silicon. There are some major actors that has already started on getting native apps for the new Apple Silicon machines. Among them Adobe and Microsoft.

Will be interesting to see how powerful the machines they launch later this year are. They could launch laptops with low power consumption, and based on the new layout in macOS Ben Sur it could very well be a touch screen hybrid between iPad and a Macbook, with FaceID, pen support etc.

There are rumours of a new iMac this year too, will be interesting to see if that will be Intel or Apple Silicon based.

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#2512581 26-Jun-2020 08:37

Handle9:I use a Citrix implementation most days. I login via our SSO infrastructure with MFA and then get a windows client via Citrix Receiver. It's OK to use but the latency and interruptions are painful.

Then someone's doing something wrong.

I worked on a Citrix-based infrastructure like you are describing for years and the performance and reliability were exemplary - OK, we had those days from time to time, but even major cloud providers have them.

Initially, our system was sized to support about 150 simultaneous remote workers, but the day after the Kaikoura earthquake we went out and bought close to a thousand CALs and MFA tokens. The hard part was getting the MFA tokens in country, then distributed (together with a "Beginners' Guide") to all the people who needed one.
Meanwhile, the sysadmins were busy swapping Citrix hosts out of the Development & Test farms and into the Remote Access server farm - all done remotely of course.

Even with a thousand simultaneous remote sessions, latency was quite acceptable for general office applications including Visio.
Interruptions were almost always caused by local issues in the various home office and shared small group 'offices', not by central infrastructure issues.

I'm retired now, but I'm sure that infrastructure will have coped pretty seamlessly with Covid Lockdown Working From Home.

We used the term "VDI" to mean a server-side implementation that required specialised hardware, usually graphics cards, to provide a satisfactory remote user experience.
A decade ago, this was technically difficult and eye-wateringly expensive, but the high end workstation/server type graphics cards provide a lot more bang per buck these days, so it's only expensive instead of eye-wateringly expensive

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#2512614 26-Jun-2020 09:10

sir1963:

Apples biggest problem is the lack of virtualisation solutions, eg VDI.

Covid19 has changed the world, the ability to "work from home" has become important. With VDI employees can use their home computer as the front end to a much more powerful back end, eg a laptop could be hooked into a 16 core/256GB Ram virtual machine for rendering video, etc. They have no need to own the software on their home machine, its a much more functional form of Remote desktop. And when they sign off this "hardware" can be reconfigured on the fly as 8 2 core machines. The plus side is instead of having high end desktop machines staff can get away with an Intel NUC instead, and it gives an overall savings on hardware costs.

Apple does not allow for this. The options are Windows/Linux.

Sure you can use a Mac as the "front end", but with all the OS/Apps being Windows/Linux what is the point in having a Mac.

This could be the hole in the lineup that kills Apple.

Most business I've dealt with in the last 4-5 years could get away with chromebooks as all of their applications have moved to web centric platforms with mobile device support.

Apple already as a strong media, music and creator ecosystem which they can continue to support on this new platform.

What will be interesting are the developers on Macs who are will struggle with technologies like container development as they will be creating ARM 64 containers and the majority of production systems tend to be x86_64 (at present).

I actually did a chunk of work helping organisations move from 68k -> PowerPC, and I'm sure Apple can execute on this move.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

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#2513001 26-Jun-2020 15:33

PolicyGuy:
Handle9:I use a Citrix implementation most days. I login via our SSO infrastructure with MFA and then get a windows client via Citrix Receiver. It's OK to use but the latency and interruptions are painful.

Then someone's doing something wrong.

I worked on a Citrix-based infrastructure like you are describing for years and the performance and reliability were exemplary - OK, we had those days from time to time, but even major cloud providers have them.

Initially, our system was sized to support about 150 simultaneous remote workers, but the day after the Kaikoura earthquake we went out and bought close to a thousand CALs and MFA tokens. The hard part was getting the MFA tokens in country, then distributed (together with a "Beginners' Guide") to all the people who needed one.
Meanwhile, the sysadmins were busy swapping Citrix hosts out of the Development & Test farms and into the Remote Access server farm - all done remotely of course.

Even with a thousand simultaneous remote sessions, latency was quite acceptable for general office applications including Visio.
Interruptions were almost always caused by local issues in the various home office and shared small group 'offices', not by central infrastructure issues.

I'm retired now, but I'm sure that infrastructure will have coped pretty seamlessly with Covid Lockdown Working From Home.

We used the term "VDI" to mean a server-side implementation that required specialised hardware, usually graphics cards, to provide a satisfactory remote user experience.
A decade ago, this was technically difficult and eye-wateringly expensive, but the high end workstation/server type graphics cards provide a lot more bang per buck these days, so it's only expensive instead of eye-wateringly expensive

There is nothing in New Zealand to compare with the scale of our deployment.

We are in over 100 countries and over 200k users. It's a bit different to maintain experience for all users at that point. We've been pretty good at breaking all sorts of infrastructure during COVID but generally it's held up very well.

I'm accessing a server in Europe from the Middle East. It's a bit different from a thousand users around NZ.

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#2514159 28-Jun-2020 21:49

Handle9:

Getting iPhone apps on the desktop is cute but meh...

Mac apps on an iPad is much more interesting.

Agreed. However, if that happens, surely they would then have to retire either Macbooks or iPads?

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#2514163 28-Jun-2020 22:20

will windows run on ARM? (bootcamp)

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#2514182 29-Jun-2020 00:38

Bootcamp is dead. I think there is an ARM version of W10 so you may be able to run it on Fusion or Parallels.

Handle9

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#2514183 29-Jun-2020 01:02

Geektastic:

Handle9:

Getting iPhone apps on the desktop is cute but meh...

Mac apps on an iPad is much more interesting.

Agreed. However, if that happens, surely they would then have to retire either Macbooks or iPads?

I doubt it. It just becomes a coherent product line with variations.

There is demand for powerful laptops with excellent keyboards, trackpads and active cooling, just as there is demand to be able to run desktop apps on a tablet that doesn't have a fan. Let's face it, Apple has crippled the iPad Pro for years.

iPad, Ipad Pro, Macbook Air and Macbook Pro all occupy slightly different markets. The Macbook Air is probably the one most at risk.

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