Weirdest eMail Problem

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Weirdest eMail Problem

pdh

345 posts

Ultimate Geek

#242755 12-Nov-2018 18:40

I host my domains with KiwiWebHost - who I believe are now run by Orcon.
Stable set-up for decade+.

The Problem: Amazon Verification Code emails take 2-4 hours (to arrive).
Which is a problem - because their V-codes time-expire after 10 minutes (by design).

All other emails arrive & depart as you would expect.

Even Amazon Order-Confirmation emails arrive fast - before I can switch from browser to Outlook.
So - let's say 1-2 seconds for a 'normal' Amazon email.
That's from Amazon.com, Amazon.de, Amazon.co.uk - whatever.

From Amazon Accounts - whoever sends the V-Codes - a Verification Code email takes 2-4 hours.
Experienced this in August, September and now November 2018.
Many emails - say 30, over that period. Always hours - not seconds.

Let me reiterate - all the following have been stable for years:
Amazon account, KWH, email addresses, VF fibre connection, GB LAN (not wifi), Outlook 2010, PC

Is this bad karma - voodoo - or is there a non-magic explanation ?

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Geek @ Coastguard NZ
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#2124399 12-Nov-2018 19:01

Post the headers into something like MXToolbox - that will show where the delay is.

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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timmmay

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#2124409 12-Nov-2018 19:38

Or post the "Received" headers here. Strip out anything sensitive like your email address if you like.

pdh

345 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2124476 12-Nov-2018 22:17

Thank you both so much.
It's bugging me as much at a metaphysical level - as at a practical level...

Here's the headers - with my email address obscured as 'xyz@zzzz.co.nz'.

Everything else is a prime example of a 'slow' message:

Return-Path: <20181112042324ed4e5eda5d8240fdb82440537e00p0na@bounces.amazon.com>
Delivered-To: xyz@zzzz.co.nz
Received: from alpha.kiwiwebhost.co.nz
by alpha.kiwiwebhost.co.nz with LMTP id EKRMHfUW6VuwYgAARRlqQQ
for <xyz@zzzz.co.nz>; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 19:00:21 +1300
Return-path: <20181112042324ed4e5eda5d8240fdb82440537e00p0na@bounces.amazon.com>
Envelope-to: xyz@zzzz.co.nz
Delivery-date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 19:00:21 +1300
Received: from a13-14.smtp-out.amazonses.com ([54.240.13.14]:34640)
by alpha.kiwiwebhost.co.nz with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:128)
(Exim 4.91)
(envelope-from <20181112042324ed4e5eda5d8240fdb82440537e00p0na@bounces.amazon.com>)
id 1gM5Gb-0007KW-9i
for xyz@zzzz.co.nz; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 19:00:21 +1300
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple;
s=eaxkvsyelrnxjh4cicqyjjmtjpetuwjx; d=amazon.com; t=1541996604;
h=From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Date;
bh=MjVnm2y91DbCy7PntOC1afoinbnsXR5XSKwuGKkMpIk=;
b=Bj5Q80MDPYTyyYbzyBMf0upQvPcgdO2xoEGJNyMF7rcGnC+KWM0Iee4MyjS+/m4U
hyd6CzRFaPUl+THni1AdhKpbVjfx2iq1GB4ytGgaYMJgYxh3tD19a96jP1/EBlIVuLQ
Ipu6xcnoy85HTR8HLLrSmnhKMgGu0WVQgyOQLFwM=
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple;
s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1541996604;
h=From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Date:Feedback-ID;
bh=MjVnm2y91DbCy7PntOC1afoinbnsXR5XSKwuGKkMpIk=;
b=UeEFJOwklN364AekDEeQsAfPDXD+ialo6NbYnVLA7QUs8jf6mVjQr09AWfupA4Z/
K+6tH5FmBGCbiaeMwoeAOm1RowsaWAjfZDamZGcJz7UD0ikngXDvRnGzb86CqTyn0PB
cfPsbEjl4OUnp+1G92CH8FE9MxMdizQFT1mJ/48g=
From: Amazon <account-update@amazon.com>
Reply-To: account-update@amazon.com
To: xyz@zzzz.co.nz
Message-ID: <010001670628eb8a-1b21db1a-3b19-4f6a-8c3a-1c552a12cd65-000000@email.amazonses.com>
Subject: Amazon.com Password Assistance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_Part_36976367_1775685992.1541996604294"
X-AMAZON-MAIL-RELAY-TYPE: notification
Bounces-to: 20181112042324ed4e5eda5d8240fdb82440537e00p0na@bounces.amazon.com
X-AMAZON-METADATA: CA=C2IZ4UN6FCDCBN-CU=A1Y2Y9SDQUCO5U
X-Original-MessageID: <urn.rtn.msg.20181112042324ed4e5eda5d8240fdb82440537e00p0na@1541996604294.rtn-svc-na-back-m4l1e-df86c5b1.us-east-1.amazon.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 04:23:24 +0000
X-SES-Outgoing: 2018.11.12-54.240.13.14
Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.ZHcGJK6s+x+i9lRHKog4RW3tECwWIf1xzTYCZyUaiec=:AmazonSES
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.5
X-Spam-Score: -54
X-Spam-Bar: -----
X-Ham-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "alpha.kiwiwebhost.co.nz",
has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original
message has been attached to this so you can view it or label
similar future email. If you have any questions, see
root\@localhost for details.

Content preview: We received a request to reset the password associated with
this e-mail address. If you made this request, please follow the instructions
below. If you did not request to have your password reset you can safely
ignore this email. Rest assured your customer account is safe.

Content analysis details: (-5.5 points, 5.0 required)

pts rule name description
---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60%
[score: 0.4998]
-0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/,
no trust
[54.240.13.14 listed in list.dnswl.org]
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
-7.5 USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL From: address is in the default SPF
white-list
1.4 HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28 BODY: HTML: images with 2400-2800 bytes of
words
0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
-0.1 DKIM_VALID_EF Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
envelope-from domain
0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily
valid
-0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
author's domain
-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
0.0 T_REMOTE_IMAGE Message contains an external image
X-Spam-Flag: NO

pdh

345 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2124486 12-Nov-2018 22:34

My amateur reading of the info in the header suggests:

(a) email was sent from a time zone on the GMT (+00.00) zone - which would fit as I believe the help desk was in South Africa.

(b) email was sent at 04:23 AM (their time) - which is 5:23 PM our time (checks out - that's when I was on the phone to them).

Needs a bigger brain than I - to guess where it went for that 1:37 ;-)

timmmay

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#2124551 13-Nov-2018 07:24

I tidied it up a bit and put it into MXToolbox. It can't see any delays :(

pdh

345 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2124682 13-Nov-2018 12:19

> ...put it into MXToolbox. it can't see any delays :(

Does this mean that :
(a) it believes there was no delay
(b) it can't find anything to explain the delay

timmmay

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#2124691 13-Nov-2018 12:33

Yes.

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

xpd

Geek @ Coastguard NZ
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#2124693 13-Nov-2018 12:35

Both.

Try via another mail client or webmail - it might be the software itself causing an issue. I doubt it tho if everything else is coming in fine.

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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pdh

345 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2124731 13-Nov-2018 13:43

Woops - how can it be both ?

'No Delay' - or 'Delay it can't explain' - either or ?

Rendering it all into GMT (Greenwich Mean Time)...

It was sent by Amazon at 04:23 - and arrived at KWH server at 06:00.

How can my mail client have anything to do with it ?

timmmay

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#2124734 13-Nov-2018 13:49

The problem reading the log is the time zones are different. If you can extract the Received: lines into a table with the time zones converted in a reliable way you can probably work it out yourself, or one of us can.

pdh

345 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2124747 13-Nov-2018 14:13

Okay - sorry, I thought I just had done so (in rough & ready form)...
Here it is more precisely (to the second):

"Received: from a13-14.smtp-out.amazonses.com ... by alpha.kiwiwebhost.co.nz ... Mon, 12 Nov 2018 19:00:21 +1300"

so this is KWH receiving it at 19:00:21 +1300 - which is 06:00:21 GMT (subtract the NZ time offset of +13:00)

"From: Amazon <account-update@amazon.com> ... Mon, 12 Nov 2018 04:23:24 +0000"

which is Amazon sending it at 04:23:24 +0000 - which is 04:23:24 GMT (as it's already at GMT - time offset of +00:00)

Hence my calculation of 1:36:57 delay - being 04:23:24 through to 06:00:21.

Happy to be corrected on my interpretation of this - but I'd be surprised ;-)

So I'm seeing a time of 1:36:57 (97 minutes) to get the email from smtp-out.amazonses.com to alpha.kiwiwebhost.co.nz.

If I'm reading it correctly...

timmmay

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#2124834 13-Nov-2018 16:04

There's no intermediate hop there. It could be a delay with the sender or the receiver. You might have to ask your ISP to look at their logs to see if they can see anything.

pdh

345 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2124843 13-Nov-2018 16:44

The only thing I could think of is a spam filter - taking a long time with a queue...

Do you know if the message header time (19:00:21) indicate the time when it reached KWH - or the time when it was put into my mailbox ?

bagheera

539 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2124906 13-Nov-2018 18:06

your issue could be 1 of to 2 thing - either your hosting server has decided that it has received to many emails from this host and temporarily block the host, after 1 - 2 hour start letting more email through till it get to it magic number again and block it again (yahoo does this all the time, a real pain to send lots emails to) - if it that the case then you need to log a call with your hosting provider to stop temporary blocking the address, or the other issues is Amazon server is overload and got a big backlog of email to send, then you would need to log a call with Amazon to fix - either way, without getting on sender / receiver server and looking into the logs you can not work out who fault it is - I would log a call with both and see what you get back with finger pointing on who end the issue is at and then go from there.

edit

looking at the

0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60%
[score: 0.4998]

my guess is your host is temporary block due to maybe spam - seen this alot on email that server think maybe spam to slow down and wait to see if get on an blacklist before letting in

pdh

345 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2124967 13-Nov-2018 19:21

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

I think that my chances are pretty small - of getting one of NZ's bigger ISPs - or one of the worlds biggest emitters of emails - to change how they are doing things.

So I think I'll just change my emails with Amazon onto a gmail account - and see if that works any better.

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