2degrees: Changes to IP Addresses (CGNAT)

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › 2degrees: Changes to IP Addresses (CGNAT)

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#2306922 27-Aug-2019 18:55

boosacnoodle:

I'm surprised a bunch of "geeks" in here are mentioning port forwarding, etc., given that 2degrees has offered IPv6 for quite some time now. I thought you'd all be using it given that you are hosting the services yourself.

What's stopping you just using IPv6?

The free WiFI down the road is only ipv4 connected so my IPv6 VPN wont connect..........

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richms

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#2306923 27-Aug-2019 18:57

boosacnoodle:

I'm surprised a bunch of "geeks" in here are mentioning port forwarding, etc., given that 2degrees has offered IPv6 for quite some time now. I thought you'd all be using it given that you are hosting the services yourself.

What's stopping you just using IPv6?

Only have IPv4 when out and on cellular or free wifi or at most friends places, so I need IPv4 at home to get a connection in.

Richard rich.ms

allio

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#2307029 27-Aug-2019 20:36

boosacnoodle:

I'm surprised a bunch of "geeks" in here are mentioning port forwarding, etc., given that 2degrees has offered IPv6 for quite some time now. I thought you'd all be using it given that you are hosting the services yourself.

What's stopping you just using IPv6?

The majority of times I access my own servers, it's using mobile data, which doesn't support IPv6. The other times it's using other people's internet connections, which are usually Spark, which doesn't support IPv6.

Edit: oops, should have opened this page first... already been said twice.

While I'm on the subject, why on earth doesn't my Spark mobile use IPv6? Aren't mobiles a perfect use case for it?

Tracer

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#2308044 29-Aug-2019 19:15

evilonenz:

I ended up contacting support via their website, and asked for the plans in regards to either opting out, or whether they would offer reduced or free Static IPs, and they have provided me with a free of charge static IPv4 address. Doesn't include a static IPv6 prefix, but thats no major. Glad my external services will continue without issue now.

Why would I have to continue paying for my static IP if you get it for free...? 2d need to think hard about how to handle this and announce their decision.

boosacnoodle:

I'm surprised a bunch of "geeks" in here are mentioning port forwarding, etc., given that 2degrees has offered IPv6 for quite some time now. I thought you'd all be using it given that you are hosting the services yourself.

What's stopping you just using IPv6?

Both Spark and 2degrees mobile.

skewt

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#2308052 29-Aug-2019 19:28

Tracer:
Both Spark and 2degrees mobile.

Yep, they both stop me from even attempting to use it

hio77

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#2308060 29-Aug-2019 19:46

skewt:
Tracer:

Both Spark and 2degrees mobile.

Yep, they both stop me from even attempting to use it

boy this thread took a turn of discussions!

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BarTender

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#2308070 29-Aug-2019 20:03

skewt:
Tracer:
Both Spark and 2degrees mobile.

Yep, they both stop me from even attempting to use it

If deploying IPv6 is so easy, cheap and straightforward then I highly recommend you build your own dual stack or IPv6 only mobile network and offer it up to customers who need it.
To me it's a sign that 2D is growing in customer base which is a good thing as you willingly wouldn't purchase CGNAT gear unless you needed it or already had it spare as it isn't cheap. But it's still cheaper than trying to purchase /20's if you can get them.

Tracer

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#2308071 29-Aug-2019 20:06

BarTender:
If deploying IPv6 is so easy, cheap and straightforward then I highly recommend you build your own dual stack or IPv6 only mobile network and offer it up to customers who need it.
To me it's a sign that 2D is growing in customer base which is a good thing as you willingly wouldn't purchase CGNAT gear unless you needed it or already had it spare as it isn't cheap. But it's still cheaper than trying to purchase /20's if you can get them.

This was in response to IPv6 being offered as a solution by another forum member. Only a criticism of 2d if they were to officially suggest it as a solution.

freitasm

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#2308158 29-Aug-2019 22:19

Folks, keep on topic.

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lucky015

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#2308188 30-Aug-2019 02:38

Interesting how the discussion here has turned into one surrounding the necessity of public IPv4 addresses rather than one regarding a substantial change by a mainstream provider to a relatively large and pre-existing customer base without a "We'll provide you a public IP on request free of charge(or at least cheap with a one off cost rather than monthly subscription" like almost every provider using CG-NAT in NZ has offered so far.

As to the cost of implementation while there are obviously some expensive implementations out there I'm aware of a couple of NZ ISP's who have made a private claim to building their own solution using surprisingly affordable gear.

I'd imagine it's a fair assumption that for a provider to implement a solution such as this they'd have to perceive it to be either already financially viable vs providing public IP's or nearing viability based on an ever increasing cost per IP, I don't imagine there's any chance of them shedding those IP's and a lot are about to become available internally, If most customers don't notice that anything has changed then shouldn't the number of customers requesting this be very small? Forcing them onto a paid subscription based Static IP via ultimatum seems like unnecessary profiteering to me.

amorangi

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#2309038 1-Sep-2019 16:19

evilonenz:

I ended up contacting support via their website, and asked for the plans in regards to either opting out, or whether they would offer reduced or free Static IPs, and they have provided me with a free of charge static IPv4 address. Doesn't include a static IPv6 prefix, but thats no major. Glad my external services will continue without issue now.

The offered me the opportunity to start paying $120/yr immediately for a static IP. I guess the $250/m I already pay them isn't enough.

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yitz

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#2309106 1-Sep-2019 18:27

What if a large portion of NZ IPv4 address space was pooled and Chorus & LFCs were in charge of allocating IPs? Early on at one stage Telecom allocated IPs under their wholesale broadband regime (prior to the L2TP solution being adopted). They are rolling out "virtual ONTs" I wonder how that could work if they had "virtual BNGs" at the other end to make better use of IP space together with the new routing paradigms we have.

BarTender

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#2309191 2-Sep-2019 06:34

yitz:
What if a large portion of NZ IPv4 address space was pooled and Chorus & LFCs were in charge of allocating IPs? Early on at one stage Telecom allocated IPs under their wholesale broadband regime (prior to the L2TP solution being adopted). They are rolling out "virtual ONTs" I wonder how that could work if they had "virtual BNGs" at the other end to make better use of IP space together with the new routing paradigms we have.

There is no real way this could work.
First of all it would require Vodafone and Spark to relinquish the large assets they have in address space to LFCs. And then what point of difference would there be between ISPs?

Telecom was split up for a reason.

noroad

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#2309230 2-Sep-2019 08:29

yitz:

What if a large portion of NZ IPv4 address space was pooled and Chorus & LFCs were in charge of allocating IPs? Early on at one stage Telecom allocated IPs under their wholesale broadband regime (prior to the L2TP solution being adopted). They are rolling out "virtual ONTs" I wonder how that could work if they had "virtual BNGs" at the other end to make better use of IP space together with the new routing paradigms we have.

That's just not how routing works sorry.

skewt

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#2309360 2-Sep-2019 11:46

BarTender:
skewt:

Yep, they both stop me from even attempting to use it

If deploying IPv6 is so easy, cheap and straightforward then I highly recommend you build your own dual stack or IPv6 only mobile network and offer it up to customers who need it.
To me it's a sign that 2D is growing in customer base which is a good thing as you willingly wouldn't purchase CGNAT gear unless you needed it or already had it spare as it isn't cheap. But it's still cheaper than trying to purchase /20's if you can get them.

I never said it was easy or straightforward, I was referring that the lack of IPv6 on Spark / 2degreesMobile prevents me from using IPv6 to VPN into my home network

I have 2degress & Spark sims, other connections I use to remote in are predominantly Spark based or motel wifi connections.

I understand CGNAT is a necessary evil and a large majority of users will have no issues with it but there are special use cases

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