changed to Bigpipe and 2 degrees still charging me for next months rental

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › changed to Bigpipe and 2 degrees still charging me for next months rental

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JoshBigpipe

122 posts

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BigPipe

#1454689 21-Dec-2015 17:37

newb: My issue is that the switch between ISP's shouldn't be as complicated as it is.

We agree. A lot of customers (not just with Bigpipe) have had nightmares getting connected with new ISPs just because they've been caught up in an arcane procedure that customers are never told about.

We thought we'd fix that, so we've put up a blog post about how to switch ISPs, and we'll be adding the some details on the best way to handle the process in our FAQs and sign-up process as well.

We also drew a cartoon diagram. Cartooagram.

www.bigpipe.co.nz

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newb

39 posts

Geek

#1455494 22-Dec-2015 17:36

2degrees have agreed to credit the $120 payment bank to my account.

I have used it as part payment for the Early Termination Fee (ETF) of $299 and paid the balance to settle the account.

Thanks Ralph for your help.

voy1d

178 posts

Master Geek

#1455744 23-Dec-2015 02:07

sbiddle:
I don't think you'll find anybody in the industry who doesn't agree that things don't work as simply as the end user expects. The real problem is there isn't a simple way of making the whole BAU process as simple as an end user would expect - if there was it would already exist.

My $0.02 on this (since I've often had issues with switching ISP's as a result of moving address).

If consumer is with ISP A and wishes to switch to ISP B they should only have to ring ISP B to make this change. ISP B will then contact Chorus and request the switch, at which point ISP A will be notified they are losing the ability to service the customer and will bill the customer as per their policy. ISP B also then notifies customer of all the details with regards to the switch.

This makes it easy for the consumer and everyone knows where they stand. Having to make multiple phone calls and arrange cancellations is a bit of hassle.

I also appreciate that with the history of slamming in the industry may make people wary of this, but the whole process is IMO convoluted and not customer friendly.

sbiddle

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Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1455770 23-Dec-2015 07:29

voy1d: ISP B will then contact Chorus and request the switch, at which point ISP A will be notified they are losing the ability to service the customer and will bill the customer as per their policy.

More often than not this is *not* now things work, and you should never assume it is. Depending on how the new ISP lodges a connection the LSP won't necessarily get a notitication. The classic (and very common) scenario where this occurs is where the customer notifies their LSP they want to disconnect and they lodge a S/O for this. Once this S/O exists the new ISP is limited on what they can do on that ASID, so normally lodges an entirely new connection which will be on a different port and pair. Because of this the LSP will get no notifcation as no churn occurs.

You should always contact your LSP after your new connection is active.

BigPipeNZ

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BigPipe

#1455819 23-Dec-2015 09:23

newb: 2degrees have agreed to credit the $120 payment bank to my account.

I have used it as part payment for the Early Termination Fee (ETF) of $299 and paid the balance to settle the account.

Thanks Ralph for your help.

Good result. :)

bigpipe.co.nz
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trig42

5811 posts

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#1455825 23-Dec-2015 09:37

I'm more wondering why you churned when you had to pay a $299 ETF. Was the new deal so much better that it was worth paying $299 rather than waiting out your contract?

On topic though, the process is messy, and it looks like some ISPs are using it as a pseudo-ETF - get an extra month out of the customer for leaving.

voy1d

178 posts

Master Geek

#1456035 23-Dec-2015 15:05

sbiddle:
voy1d: ISP B will then contact Chorus and request the switch, at which point ISP A will be notified they are losing the ability to service the customer and will bill the customer as per their policy.

More often than not this is *not* now things work, and you should never assume it is. Depending on how the new ISP lodges a connection the LSP won't necessarily get a notitication. The classic (and very common) scenario where this occurs is where the customer notifies their LSP they want to disconnect and they lodge a S/O for this. Once this S/O exists the new ISP is limited on what they can do on that ASID, so normally lodges an entirely new connection which will be on a different port and pair. Because of this the LSP will get no notifcation as no churn occurs.

You should always contact your LSP after your new connection is active.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. As a consumer this is how it -should- work, the process isn't very consumer friendly when the consumer should be very high up the priority list.

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newb

39 posts

Geek

#1456196 23-Dec-2015 18:17

trig42: I'm more wondering why you churned when you had to pay a $299 ETF. Was the new deal so much better that it was worth paying $299 rather than waiting out your contract?

On topic though, the process is messy, and it looks like some ISPs are using it as a pseudo-ETF - get an extra month out of the customer for leaving.

There were number of factors why I decided to pay the ETF and end the contract with 2degrees. (1) Bigpipe had a promotion that included 2 FREE month's for new customers. (2) I was paying $120 on the 200/20 Plan and wanted to downgrade to 100/20. 2degrees was going to charge me $50 for this downgrade. (3) The Fritzbox 7490 modem was subsidised if you sign up for a 2 yr contract (There was an additional cost for the modem if you only signed up for a 1yr contract). I can't remember how much it was, but I would have had to pay extra initially for the modem. (4) My outgoing costs per month was significantly lower and i'm not noticing any performance issues... so far so good.

CcMaN

87 posts

Master Geek

#1456209 23-Dec-2015 18:29

newb: 2degrees have agreed to credit the $120 payment bank to my account.

I have used it as part payment for the Early Termination Fee (ETF) of $299 and paid the balance to settle the account.

Thanks Ralph for your help.

Good to see the change of heart by 2degrees. I disconnected from Snap just before the buyout, and was unaware of the 30 day notice period. I was happy to sacrifice the 10 days I had prepaid for, but they insisted on charging for another month on top.
I tried to sort this out directly with Snap, and they wouldn't budge and still charged my credit card even though I had a billing dispute open. TDR couldn't help me either as I was deadlocked.

I'm still quite bitter about it, as paying $120 extra was quite a killer at the time budget wise, and I was informed by my new ISP that they would inform my current provider of the move of services on my behalf.

I wish ComCom could come in and regulate these 30 day notice periods as they make the process more complicated and prevents customers to switching to better deals. Power companies I can switch same day if I'm not on a contract and have no penalties, I wish telecommunications could be the same.

voy1d

178 posts

Master Geek

#1456232 23-Dec-2015 19:14

CcMaN:

I wish ComCom could come in and regulate these 30 day notice periods as they make the process more complicated and prevents customers to switching to better deals. Power companies I can switch same day if I'm not on a contract and have no penalties, I wish telecommunications could be the same.

As I understand this (and I might be wrong) is that because Chorus charges calendar month in advance and doesn't prorate the charges if you leave partway through a billing period then the ISP is still charged. I'm also assuming if you switch provider part way through the month then Chorus will also charge them (essentially double dipping) and could be interesting to see how it turns out if that is challenged properly.

newb

39 posts

Geek

#1456245 23-Dec-2015 20:03

voy1d:
CcMaN:

I wish ComCom could come in and regulate these 30 day notice periods as they make the process more complicated and prevents customers to switching to better deals. Power companies I can switch same day if I'm not on a contract and have no penalties, I wish telecommunications could be the same.

As I understand this (and I might be wrong) is that because Chorus charges calendar month in advance and doesn't prorate the charges if you leave partway through a billing period then the ISP is still charged. I'm also assuming if you switch provider part way through the month then Chorus will also charge them (essentially double dipping) and could be interesting to see how it turns out if that is challenged properly.

I received the email below that was sent to 2degrees regarding my account.

My billing period with 2degrees for broadband services was 18th December and my services with Bigpipe were provisioned on 14 December.

Billing from Chorus to 2degrees ended 14th December. 2degrees were not paying Chorus for the period (17 Dec 2015 - 17 Jan 2016), i.e the extra month they wanted to charge.

From: [noreply@chorus.co.nz]
Sent: 14/12/2015 8:56 AM
To: provisioning@staff.snap.net.nz
Cc: support@bigpipe.co.nz
Subject: Action: Cease Billing: Product ID XXXXXXXXXX

We have received a request to transfer Evolve XXXXXXXX Residential Product ID XXXXXXXX.

Billing for this connection will cease from 09:00 AM Monday, 14th December.

Regards,
Chorus Provisioning Team.

newb

39 posts

Geek

#1459158 30-Dec-2015 17:16

Interesting article that was posted in another forum..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/72605678/Disputes-Tribunal-finds-Spark-arguably-doubling-up-on-fees

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