Terrible upload on VDSL and 2degrees provides no support?

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Terrible upload on VDSL and 2degrees provides no support?

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Lizard Networks

#1636811 20-Sep-2016 20:02

This here is why master filters are important.

glad you got such a success!

would love it if you can repost your before shots.

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erik

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#1636929 20-Sep-2016 22:26

Sure thing, no idea why the original pics aren't showing any longer, I assume the link must have expired on postimage.org.

Previous and current situation compared:

hio77

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#1636942 20-Sep-2016 23:05

solid improvement!

i may even end up using that as an example!

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Jase2985

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#1636962 21-Sep-2016 00:59

next to no change in the downstream attenuation but a huge improvement in the upstream.

Good result

erik

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#1638111 21-Sep-2016 11:35

Jase2985:

next to no change in the downstream attenuation but a huge improvement in the upstream.

Yes, given our distance from the exchange (over 900m), I think this is as good as things will get.
It certainly has made a huge difference in upload and overall connection stability.

Played a round of BF3 last night again and there was a noticeable improvement in lag, etc.

Our house was completely rewired in 2000/2001 but it just goes to show that a master filter should be on everyone's list of things to (have) install(ed).

I just wish that this would be offered standard with every new VDSL sign-up - $199 isn't a lot of money in my book for this kind of thing.

What annoys me is that ISP's like 2 Degrees make no mention of this offering at all. Also the service desk rather put this to "you're too far away from the exchange". It was only Ralph that mentioned that they can have this installed through Chorus. (So not some random electrician but someone who does this all the time.)

Henceforth my recommendation is that anyone on VDSL (and possibly ADSL) should get a master filter installed.

Come to think of it, when we got ADSL installed in Europe, back in 2001/2002, I'm certain it was standard practice for a technician to show up and install a filter at the access/entry point. It was just done that way. I believe this may have been true also for the first ADSL roll outs in New Zealand but it seems every ISP now claims this is all "plug and play" - when it's absolutely not the case.

sbiddle

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#1638112 21-Sep-2016 11:40

erik:

I just wish that this would be offered standard with every new VDSL sign-up - $199 isn't a lot of money in my book for this kind of thing.

A full VDSL2 installer with wiring and master filter is still performed as standard by many RSP's. The cost of the filter is built into the monthly fee built into the wholesale price the RSP pays Chorus. Snap were one of the first to offer this service as they were pioneers in the mass market VDSL2 space.

Some providers didn't want a master filter and could save money each month by not paying this fee to Chorus allowing them to undercut the retail price that other providers were charging for VDSL2. In a market with such slim margins this meant others followed suit and you're now in a situation where some RSP's will offer a full install with wiring, and others won't. There is no real way for the end user to know this without asking.

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#1638192 21-Sep-2016 12:42

erik:

<snip> I just wish that this would be offered standard with every new VDSL sign-up - $199 isn't a lot of money in my book for this kind of thing.

What annoys me is that ISP's like 2 Degrees make no mention of this offering at all. ... <snip>

+1 Agree +++

At the very least a master filter should be offered as an option with every new VDSL install.

I wouldn't even consider getting VDSL without a master filter.

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smellsbad

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#1654784 19-Oct-2016 22:06

I have exactly the same issues as OP. Was told (by same ISP as OP) I would have excellent results with VDSL (30-40Mbps down/4-6Mbps up) and after cutting over today am getting 14.5Mbps down and 528 kbit/s up.

I had excellent ADSL prior (13Mbps/0.9Mbps)

A master filter makes it unaffordable, and am pretty damn annoyed it was not on their checklist. After specifically asking if there was anything else needed or that I had to do.

I will be going around removing all other jack points from the circuit and checking all the wiring I have access to see if anything can be tweaked. There are no other devices in use, just the FritzBox from the ISP. But I'm not holding my breath that will improve it.

Will be cancelling tomorrow if I can't get an improvement to at least 2Mbps upstream.

hio77

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#1654788 19-Oct-2016 22:15

smellsbad:

I have exactly the same issues as OP. Was told (by same ISP as OP) I would have excellent results with VDSL (30-40Mbps down/4-6Mbps up) and after cutting over today am getting 14.5Mbps down and 528 kbit/s up.

I had excellent ADSL prior (13Mbps/0.9Mbps)

A master filter makes it unaffordable, and am pretty damn annoyed it was not on their checklist. After specifically asking if there was anything else needed or that I had to do.

I will be going around removing all other jack points from the circuit and checking all the wiring I have access to see if anything can be tweaked. There are no other devices in use, just the FritzBox from the ISP. But I'm not holding my breath that will improve it.

Will be cancelling tomorrow if I can't get an improvement to at least 2Mbps upstream.

Please remember, Prequal figures are assumptions, Estimations, Averages. Pick your word, but they are not always correct.

If you feel handy enough to check the wiring but do not want to pay for a filter (your looking at literally like 20$ for one if you dyi!)

take a run of cat5, from the ETP to your DSL jackpoint, join it all up nicely and you will be in top shape. - Dont just disconnect jackpoints, it is the clean connection from the ETP your looking for. Just disconnecting jackpoints could still leave you with T joins that will cause havoc.

just because you have okay adsl (Yeah, i mark it as okay, nothing great.) does not mean vdsl will go as smoothly.

VDSL is more sensitive to noise and reflections, Especially at the longer end of things.

If you want a more technical comment, please post your DSL stats and spectrum from the fritzbox UI, ill give it a decent look over and indicate how things are looking.

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smellsbad

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#1654799 19-Oct-2016 22:27

hio77:

If you feel handy enough to check the wiring but do not want to pay for a filter (your looking at literally like 20$ for one if you dyi!)

If you want a more technical comment, please post your DSL stats and spectrum from the fritzbox UI, ill give it a decent look over and indicate how things are looking.

Compared to every house we have been in our ADSL is the best we've had. It's been stable and low latency. I know VDSL is fussy, but 30-40Mbps vs 14Mbps is a huge variation. As for the upload, it's unusable as a YouTuber uploading daily gaming videos. the point of VDSL was the improved upload.

As far as I can tell there is only one extension and no junctions under the house, I will remove the extension tomorrow to take that out of the possible points of failure.

The issue I have is that I asked the questions and was told nothing. Had they said we were borderline or needed to spend another $200 I'd have said no to the upgrade.

I'm assuming the 538 is some sort of default fallback limited rate since the OP had exactly the same values.

Output/reports form Fritz the Cat.

hio77

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#1654807 19-Oct-2016 22:38

Okay so, first off, lowest latency adsl - that purely comes down to interleaving settings.

uploading on adsl, tough! :/

538 is not a fallback at all, actually the fallback rate is 360k.

borderline, absolutely you are. 27dB, ild pick your downstream attenuation was 25dB before the upgrade.

Bit hard to tell the full story in your spectrum due to the bug that the latest fritzOS has with some webkit browsers (you will probably fine IE will show up the green aswell and the blue)

However all isn't lost there, clean up the extension, assuming it is indeed a single link from there, Twisted pair would be a bonus, you should be okay for maybe 20/2 or so (i like to be a little light on my ballparks i could see it go far higher)

I would also double check you dont have an ADSL rated filter in there anywhere (inline or master) although as mentioned before without seeing the upstream channels it is hard to pick the cutoff ranges.

Given your attenuation, 30-40 is way overestimated, but 4-6 up should be possible.

You could simply be in an area with alot of noise, however given your stated adsl stats and the lack of noise in the adsl bands on your line this is a hard one to call as being so.

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smellsbad

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#1654815 19-Oct-2016 22:48

hio77:

borderline, absolutely you are. 27dB, ild pick your downstream attenuation was 25dB before the upgrade.

However all isn't lost there, clean up the extension, assuming it is indeed a single link from there, Twisted pair would be a bonus, you should be okay for maybe 20/2 or so (i like to be a little light on my ballparks i could see it go far higher)

I would also double check you dont have an ADSL rated filter in there anywhere (inline or master) although as mentioned before without seeing the upstream channels it is hard to pick the cutoff ranges.

Given your attenuation, 30-40 is way overestimated, but 4-6 up should be possible.

You could simply be in an area with alot of noise, however given your stated adsl stats and the lack of noise in the adsl bands on your line this is a hard one to call as being so.

Thanks you very much for your reply. If I can even get the upload back to ADSL level I can accept that, but right now a 30 minute video that normally took 90 minutes to upload has been going for 3 hours and is only 65% completed! Actual upload speed dropped to 0.3Mbps.

I will have to pop under the house with my "brave pants" on tomorrow and trace the cable. The spiders here (Raglan) are rather large and there is a good reason we don't have a mouse problem.

Again, thanks for the info and your time. I'll be sure to provide an update if I survive the trip under the house without meeting Shelob's daughter.

hio77

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#1654817 19-Oct-2016 22:53

smellsbad:

Thanks you very much for your reply. If I can even get the upload back to ADSL level I can accept that, but right now a 30 minute video that normally took 90 minutes to upload has been going for 3 hours and is only 65% completed! Actual upload speed dropped to 0.3Mbps.

I will have to pop under the house with my "brave pants" on tomorrow and trace the cable. The spiders here (Raglan) are rather large and there is a good reason we don't have a mouse problem.

Again, thanks for the info and your time. I'll be sure to provide an update if I survive the trip under the house without meeting Shelob's daughter.

not a problem, is what i do in my downtime ;)

Shelob? dammn.. yep im not offering! ild be tempted to throw a few bug nades under there first!

look forward to hearing how things go

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erik

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#1654821 19-Oct-2016 22:58

I have another master filter new in box here (I bought it a while ago before realising our connection point is 6 meters up and I get really bad vertigo when leaving terra firma). I was going to offer to swap for a few cold beers but I just saw that you're in Raglan which isn't in my immediate neighborhood. :)

The filter itself isn't very expensive at all:

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/MODDNX001/DYNAMIX-XDSL-Master-Wired-in-filter-ADSLADSL2VDSLV

(I literally have this very same filter sitting in an unopened box on a shelf).

Installing it also doesn't seem to be a major thing. The filter basically splits voice from the ADSL/VDSL data and you connect your existing wiring to one part of the filter. You then run a separate cable from a "now-xDSL-dedicated-jack-point" where your router is to the master filter and connect that to the other side, so that there is a direct, uninterrupted connection from the master filter to the VDSL router, through your dedicated jack point.

edit: can't spell worth a danm

smellsbad

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#1654823 19-Oct-2016 23:09

erik:

Installing it also doesn't seem to be a major thing. The filter basically splits voice from the ADSL/VDSL data and you connect your existing wiring to one part of the filter. You then run a separate cable from a "now-xDSL-dedicated-jack-point" where your router is to the master filter and connect that to the other side, so that there is a direct, uninterrupted connection from the master filter to the VDSL router, through your dedicated jack point.

As we own the home and have no other devices anywhere on the circuit, nor intend on ever having any, I'm just going to see if I can find the entry point and run from there directly. One cable, straight to jack point for the router. No filter should be required then I'm assuming?

I may even see if I can find power close to the entry point and stick the router in a water proof box right by it. Then run ethernet to switch plus a second WAP.

Anyway, depends on whether I meet Shelob's daughter under the house. I'm not liking my chances of surviving the trip under the house.

Shame about the beers. I like beers.

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