Chorus disconnected us, what is fair compo?

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savag3

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#438909 13-Feb-2011 17:52

People seem to think that just because there is no SLA that Telco's can do what they like. This isn't the case because the CGA requires them to provide the service using "reasonable care and skill". I would think that disconnecting someones broadband then taking quite a while to fix it doesn't meet that standard. As for compensation you are entitled to reimbursement for any loss you suffered which was reasonably foreseeable to result from their failure. You might have to use the Disputes Tribunal if you can't agree on suitable compensation.

snnet

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#438936 13-Feb-2011 19:08

savag3: People seem to think that just because there is no SLA that Telco's can do what they like. This isn't the case because the CGA requires them to provide the service using "reasonable care and skill". I would think that disconnecting someones broadband then taking quite a while to fix it doesn't meet that standard. As for compensation you are entitled to reimbursement for any loss you suffered which was reasonably foreseeable to result from their failure. You might have to use the Disputes Tribunal if you can't agree on suitable compensation.

I agree, however, people seem to forget that if it isn't the ISP's own equipment they are not dealing with Chorus directly, who have apparently caused this issue.

I'm no expert on CGA so tell me, does it cover transactions between businesses?

Sounds like Slingshot ARE compensating for downtime experienced, so that's a nonissue.

Chorus never directly serve end users and have no contract with them whatsoever. They serve wholesale providers who may also then lease to other providers.

raytaylor

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#439051 14-Feb-2011 00:17

Slingshot should be compensating you with both service downtime, and any costs involved in your time waiting on hold and checking things at your end.

Chorus I am pretty sure have some sort of service level agreements mandated by the government. That would depend upon if you are an LLU end user or if slingshot have you through telecom wholesale.

At work, we were lucky enough to randomly loose our broadband one afternoon (bad for an internet cafe). Called orcon to report a fault then found we had been patched into the xtra / telecom broadband network instead of orcons. Dont know how or why but none of our usage was billed to us by telecom.
Ended up realising when our static ip wasnt what we were getting assigned a few days later.

Ray Taylor

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Kyanar

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#439124 14-Feb-2011 09:58

snnet:
savag3: People seem to think that just because there is no SLA that Telco's can do what they like. This isn't the case because the CGA requires them to provide the service using "reasonable care and skill". I would think that disconnecting someones broadband then taking quite a while to fix it doesn't meet that standard. As for compensation you are entitled to reimbursement for any loss you suffered which was reasonably foreseeable to result from their failure. You might have to use the Disputes Tribunal if you can't agree on suitable compensation.

I agree, however, people seem to forget that if it isn't the ISP's own equipment they are not dealing with Chorus directly, who have apparently caused this issue.

I'm no expert on CGA so tell me, does it cover transactions between businesses?

Sounds like Slingshot ARE compensating for downtime experienced, so that's a nonissue.

Chorus never directly serve end users and have no contract with them whatsoever. They serve wholesale providers who may also then lease to other providers.

CGA does not apply to business to business transactions (such as that between Slingshot and Chorus). Also, as Chorus is not directly supplying services to end users, they have absolutely no obligation to those users. They have obligations to their wholesale customers, who have their own obligations to end users. Really, I'd be wondering why Slingshot wasn't screaming bloody murder at Chorus to get it fixed - 10 days indicates the ISP had a hand in this breakdown IMO.

raytaylor

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#439260 14-Feb-2011 14:00

Slingshot can only communicate issues through a crappy issue ticket system.
They can scream bloody murder, by using a ticket that will be looked at when it is next pulled up.

Its a real pain for both ISP's and consumers.

Ray Taylor

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nickb800

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#439451 14-Feb-2011 20:47

So turns out chorus literaly snipped our cable at the street pedestal when hooking up the new neighbour's house.
I guess a certain downers tech needs to learn how to use scissors again.

I accept that I'll probably just get a refund for the downtime incurred. I suppose I am struggling with the concept that an employee/contractor can make such a screw up and their company (Chorus) faces virtually no penalty apart from their cost to repair it, despite great inconvenience to the end customer. Im not sure if this would happen in other industries

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Handle9

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#439457 14-Feb-2011 20:54

nickb800: I suppose I am struggling with the concept that an employee/contractor can make such a screw up and their company (Chorus) faces virtually no penalty apart from their cost to repair it, despite great inconvenience to the end customer. Im not sure if this would happen in other industries

It depends on the contract that Slingshot has with Chorus. If Chorus exclude consequential damages by contract then it's really tough luck Slingshot. The company I work for certainly do tag consequential damages in construction contracts (in fact we refuse to sign contracts that include them).

snnet

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#439463 14-Feb-2011 21:04

Yup, common practice for me too for any liability to be placed on me. That's why I have a healthy liability insurance policy! God knows if we managed to damage one of Chorus' cables we'd be billed :P

richms

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#440567 17-Feb-2011 08:59

Are you down a long driveway at all, with a shared multipair cable from the pillar to a pole down the driveway?

After talking to someone at chorus after something similar happened to me here, thats about the only situation where this can happen, as they dont have proper records of private shared entry cables in many cases, as contractors will just swap pairs down that cable like they swap them over on entry cables for fault finding. As naked DSL sounds disconnected when they put the tester across it they treat it as fair game to swap over or disconnect when they dont check for DSL on it too.

Its basically unauthorized tampering with your connection so you might have a case to directly hit up chorus for something, same as you would be able to get damages from someone who took out your pole or power in a car accident.

The delay to reinstate the service is something that you need to get slingshot to compensate for. Most PSTN faults get fixed same or next day, so for 10 days to be offline something failed between you raising the ticket and it getting actioned. That is slingshots fault, or their supplier which is chorus.

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nickb800

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#440791 17-Feb-2011 16:13

Turns out we got $41 refund, essentially half a month charges which is pretty good considering what I have learned here.

Nothing like that richms, just a grey ped by the street which I guess has two cables leading out - one to us and one to the neighbours. The neighbours demolished their old house and built a new one on the same site.
My theory is that they expected an 'old' line coming into the ped that went to their old house, but it might have been completely removed as part of demolition. Chorus sees our line and assumes it is the neighbours old house line, so snips it. My house is on a corner so they might have thought our connection was on the street around the corner.

snnet

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#440798 17-Feb-2011 16:36

My theory is that they expected an 'old' line coming into the ped that went to their old house, but it might have been completely removed as part of demolition. Chorus sees our line and assumes it is the neighbours old house line, so snips it. My house is on a corner so they might have thought our connection was on the street around the corner.

You are probably spot on there. I'm an electrician and in a lot of these cases this is exactly what happens. I always remove old wiring and reinstall new wiring after a house has been demolished and replaced- and as I understand it that is what most of the industry does. I'm glad you got some compensation out of it.

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