2degrees: Changes to IP Addresses (CGNAT)

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Master Geek
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#2351089 10-Nov-2019 11:34

BarTender:

I am quite enjoying some of the entitled tears in this thread with associated threats of moving to another ISP. They are quite frankly hilarious.

[...]

You've already made your position clear 10 posts ago... Why continue insulting users this has affected?

BarTender

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#2351192 10-Nov-2019 15:21

JohnFlower:
BarTender:

I am quite enjoying some of the entitled tears in this thread with associated threats of moving to another ISP. They are quite frankly hilarious.

[...]
You've already made your position clear 10 posts ago... Why continue insulting users this has affected?

I fully understand the frustration with things changing. But to me the entitled attitude of "I need my Static and I expect it to be free" is everything that is wrong with providing internet services today.
If it was a common service or requirement then fine but when your customer base is focused on primarily cost above all other things then this is the service you get.
To me it's like complaining that you don't get free Koru Service including food and alcohol on Jetstar. You get the service you pay for.

spoonboy

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#2351219 10-Nov-2019 16:15

Hi, I've just changed to 2D and found that I cannot connect to my "home" server IP from Internet anymore despite the port forwarding settings in the modem.

I've checked the ip4 in the modem with the IP shown on the "https://whatismyipaddress.com/" and they are different (100.66.25.70 and 165.84.62.219). So, am I understanding it right, that this is the result of the CGNAT?

Now, I've checked that the IP6 address shown on the site is matching the one configured on the server.

However, I cannot access the ports via IP6 either. Is this an expected behaviour with 2D service or it could be some settings in the modem?

Thanks.

hio77

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#2351220 10-Nov-2019 16:17

Is your home server actually listening on v6? You might find it's only binding to v4

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KrazyKid

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#2351221 10-Nov-2019 16:24

This seems to be side tracking the thread...

But it's more like Air NZ suddenly deciding to stop access to the koru club lounge when you have been going there for years. And you only find out when you turn up to find the door is locked and there is no sign.

Going forward signing up to 2 degrees you know what to expect. But for current customers it was/is a surprising inconvenience. If like me you only know enough to be dangerous it takes a while to work out what has happened.

Saying that I understand why there was no (limited) announcement. And for me 2 degrees has looked after me when I made known my problem. I still rate 2 degrees as an ISP.

spoonboy

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#2351234 10-Nov-2019 17:31

hio77: Is your home server actually listening on v6? You might find it's only binding to v4

yes, I can connect to the services locally on the ip6/port

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#2351235 10-Nov-2019 17:32

spoonboy:
hio77: Is your home server actually listening on v6? You might find it's only binding to v4

yes, I can connect to the services locally on the ip6/port

Check the firewall on fritz. I recall it had some sort of filter on v6

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Handle9

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#2351238 10-Nov-2019 17:47

BarTender:
JohnFlower:

BarTender:

I am quite enjoying some of the entitled tears in this thread with associated threats of moving to another ISP. They are quite frankly hilarious.

[...]
You've already made your position clear 10 posts ago... Why continue insulting users this has affected?

I fully understand the frustration with things changing. But to me the entitled attitude of "I need my Static and I expect it to be free" is everything that is wrong with providing internet services today.
If it was a common service or requirement then fine but when your customer base is focused on primarily cost above all other things then this is the service you get.
To me it's like complaining that you don't get free Koru Service including food and alcohol on Jetstar. You get the service you pay for.

The contempt shown for customers in this thread is mind boggling. Customers want their service to work and to be treated with respect.

The service provider:

Made a change that breaks their service and didn't tell them

Then gives some users free static IPs but not others, depending on who you talk to and which way the wind is blowing.

It's not a threat for customers to want to change providers, it's a totally rational response to poor service.

If ISPs had something unique that made customers value them then they could charge more. They sell a commodity so they have to differentiate on service and price. If a customer is getting poor service then they should leave.

Senecio

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#2351244 10-Nov-2019 18:16

BarTender:
I am quite enjoying some of the entitled tears in this thread with associated threats of moving to another ISP. They are quite frankly hilarious.

I haven’t seen anyone in this thread who believes they are entitled to a static IP? People do believe they are entitled to a public IP as that is what they were paying for and how they have built their home networks. The RSP removed that option such that a Static IP is the only way to get a public IP.

Under those circumstances, if I were a 2D customer I would also demand a Static IP at no cost to me.

toejam316

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#2351247 10-Nov-2019 18:26

"The contempt for customers" is a bit rich, if anything 2degrees decided to have faith in those who would be impacted having the ability to figure out what's going on.

Feel free to be unhappy, but just don't be under the illusion that what 2degrees did was below the standard, in fact I'd suggest this thread is above and beyond what most of the ISPs would offer in terms of a public statement.

There's been suggestions that the impacted users are 0.1% of customers, I'd suggest it'd be far fewer than that, because a lot of users who require a public IP and are aware of it also opt in to having a Public Static IP, so they're not reliant on third party services.

As for the entitled to a public IP, you'll find the definitions of the service you're purchasing is far less specific than that, and I'd subject to unnotified change, usually... Though YMMV.

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Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

Handle9

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#2351264 10-Nov-2019 19:33

toejam316: "The contempt for customers" is a bit rich, if anything 2degrees decided to have faith in those who would be impacted having the ability to figure out what's going on.

Feel free to be unhappy, but just don't be under the illusion that what 2degrees did was below the standard, in fact I'd suggest this thread is above and beyond what most of the ISPs would offer in terms of a public statement.

There's been suggestions that the impacted users are 0.1% of customers, I'd suggest it'd be far fewer than that, because a lot of users who require a public IP and are aware of it also opt in to having a Public Static IP, so they're not reliant on third party services.

As for the entitled to a public IP, you'll find the definitions of the service you're purchasing is far less specific than that, and I'd subject to unnotified change, usually... Though YMMV.

To be clear the contempt comment was related to this thread. The comments basically telling customers that they are too stupid to need a static IP because they couldn't immediately diagnose a problem or entitled because they want their service to continue to work without paying extra.

Also to be clear the contractual obligations of 2degrees are not directly related to the way that they interact with customers. The contractual obligations are the minimum they have to deliver, not what they should deliver as a good supplier.

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toejam316

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#2351273 10-Nov-2019 20:18

Handle9:
toejam316: snip.

To be clear the contempt comment was related to this thread. The comments basically telling customers that they are too stupid to need a static IP because they couldn't immediately diagnose a problem or entitled because they want their service to continue to work without paying extra.

Also to be clear the contractual obligations of 2degrees are not directly related to the way that they interact with customers. The contractual obligations are the minimum they have to deliver, not what they should deliver as a good supplier.

I don't think there's really been contempt in this thread either, and contempt for the customer is a poor way to phrase it regardless. The reality is people are diving into this thread and saying "I don't understand what's happened or why, but the change negatively impacted me and 2degrees should've x/y/z'd!", when a bunch of us with industry experience have advised this has been handled as best as possible.

The reality is there isn't anything 2degrees could've done that would have been viable and given you a better conclusion.

As mentioned earlier by myself and others, an official public statement would've flooded their call center with Aunty wanting to make sure Facebook will still work and Uncle demanding compensation for the change to his service that he would have never known about.

By all means if there is productive suggestions or solutions to prevent situations like this occurring as the inevitable March to a more heavily NAT'd IPv4 world carries on, there's plenty of people here and I suspect worldwide who are gonna be interested.

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Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

Tinkerisk

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#2351332 10-Nov-2019 23:32

Each hacker noob is able to scan IP addresses to see if there's server traffic. I really doubt this can't be done by an ISP in his address perimeter to find only affected customers to contact them. This is nothing else what police would do (or not) to identify IP addresses - easy task.

Qui nihil scit, omnia credere debet.
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In effect we have everything to hide from someone, and no idea who someone is.

BarTender

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#2351394 11-Nov-2019 08:44

Tinkerisk:

Each hacker noob is able to scan IP addresses to see if there's server traffic. I really doubt this can't be done by an ISP in his address perimeter to find only affected customers to contact them. This is nothing else what police would do (or not) to identify IP addresses - easy task.

So you are asking ISPs to port scan each customer and I assume it would be all 65k ports as you could be running a service on a non-standard port prior to cutting their service over to CGNAT? Fairly sure an ISP port scanning a customer without prior consent would get into trouble with regards to the privacy act and the misuse of computers section of the crimes act. Also assumes that the customer hasn't firewalled the source IP.

So ALL of that work and potential risk from criminal liability for a problem that impacts less than 1% of your total customer base............... Right.

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#2351401 11-Nov-2019 08:51

toejam316:
Handle9:

toejam316: snip.

To be clear the contempt comment was related to this thread. The comments basically telling customers that they are too stupid to need a static IP because they couldn't immediately diagnose a problem or entitled because they want their service to continue to work without paying extra.

Also to be clear the contractual obligations of 2degrees are not directly related to the way that they interact with customers. The contractual obligations are the minimum they have to deliver, not what they should deliver as a good supplier.

I don't think there's really been contempt in this thread either, and contempt for the customer is a poor way to phrase it regardless. The reality is people are diving into this thread and saying "I don't understand what's happened or why, but the change negatively impacted me and 2degrees should've x/y/z'd!", when a bunch of us with industry experience have advised this has been handled as best as possible.

The reality is there isn't anything 2degrees could've done that would have been viable and given you a better conclusion.

As mentioned earlier by myself and others, an official public statement would've flooded their call center with Aunty wanting to make sure Facebook will still work and Uncle demanding compensation for the change to his service that he would have never known about.

By all means if there is productive suggestions or solutions to prevent situations like this occurring as the inevitable March to a more heavily NAT'd IPv4 world carries on, there's plenty of people here and I suspect worldwide who are gonna be interested.

I also completely agree here, perhaps I may have been a little terse but at the same time I would have an expectation that if someone was technically savvy enough to pin hole a port on their firewall that they would also be savvy enough to know that when the IP Address on their router doesn't match the results of a google for "What is my IP" then something is up.

This is the reality of running a mass market service. Services change and can be amended without notification.

If you ever needed a barometer of how much the impact is I always recommend going to the Facebook page of the provider. If it is seriously a problem then there would be at least 10-20 posts about it and everyone jumping on-board about how disgruntled they were. After a quick scroll of at least 10 pages I couldn't find even a single mention..... So what does that tell me?

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