Grumpy about my mobile again!

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#945280 4-Dec-2013 12:11

DonGould:

Yes, I had 021 114 0699 on a 2degrees prepay, they gave me a new number on a new sim with the iPhone, I then had to purchase a Vodafone SIM, churn the number to it, then churn the number back to 2Degrees because 2degrees don't have a system to move the number from one sim to another!

Yes... Yes we do. Obviously from where I sit I have no clue why whoever you spoke to didn't know that, but they can literally take a SIM off the shelf and move your number to it. It takes less than a minute. Was this an actual 2degrees-branded store you were at or some other one like Dick Smith (I don't remember whether you said that in the beginning)?

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

DonGould

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#945330 4-Dec-2013 13:19

SaltyNZ: Yes... Yes we do. Obviously from where I sit I have no clue why whoever you spoke to didn't know that, but they can literally take a SIM off the shelf and move your number to it. It takes less than a minute. Was this an actual 2degrees-branded store you were at or some other one like Dick Smith (I don't remember whether you said that in the beginning)?

It was Harvey Norman in Northwood, Christchurch.

The "best option" was to purchase the iPhone 5 on a $40 dollar plan, which gave us a $350 dollar hardware credit ($1350 --> $1000) then to put the balance on a GE Credit Card with 12 months deferred, interest free payment.

From my point of view, as the consumer, the deal makes good sense. Less than $100 dollars a month for a hardware upgrade and a phone plan (that at the time over doubled my value).

Salty can you see how this just fell apart?

D

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DonGould

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#945342 4-Dec-2013 13:44

tdgeek: I think the key is a good usage app.

I have a number of questions TD.

1. Why do you have a good app?

Has having a real competitor in the market place empowered your company to put more resource in to providing a better solution for customers?

2. Is it preloaded?

I opened my new phone box, went to the market and then loaded up all the normal stuff that I had on my previous phone (which was an Android, so I had to find all the 'Apple' options).

The first thing the phone wanted to do was download a 700MB OS update.

I did load the 2degrees app up. But I also had to go to the 'real web site' to register. So no, the 'app' is not that good.

3. Do you have a guy who puts BBQs together?

One of the young guys at Harvey Norman gave me his personal business card while I was standing around getting the paper work done. He runs a sideline business. He puts customers BBQs together and drops them off. Harvey Norman also sell BBQs.

At Telecom, do you have a guy who will put my phone together for me? Will he drop it off once it's done?

Do you have a plan so that I don't have to give him my personal information (such as email password) but allows him to 'assemble' my phone ready for use?

Me or You?

My time at the store was all about "you" and nothing about "me".

It was about doing 2Degrees paper work, GE paper work, Harvey Norman paper work and nothing about me.

To be about 'me' it would mean I would have left with an iPhone 5, with 0211140699 as its phone number, applications loaded that I typically use, the OS up to date and just ready for me to enter personal data (if you didn't actually walk me through that in store).

I should be able to get everything done in 30 minutes.

If this is not possible in a G4 world, with 100GE fibre running up and down the country on more than one fibre network, then I think we really Really REALLY need to be having a rethink, don't you?

D

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kingjj

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#945348 4-Dec-2013 13:57

DonGould:

I did load the 2degrees app up. But I also had to go to the 'real web site' to register. So no, the 'app' is not that good.

How hard is it to take 5 minutes on a 'real web site' to register? Registering allows you access to both the app and the website with extended features, its hardly a waste of time. Not everyone wants to be registered so by making it opt in only those who want to use the service receive it, ditto for the 'app'. When you spend all day online through various devices 5 minutes is hardly a waste of your time when it involves making life oh so much simpler in the long run. Not to mention avoiding bill shock through unchecked usage...

DonGould

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#945374 4-Dec-2013 14:19

kingjj: How hard is it to take 5 minutes on a 'real web site' to register?

It's a real pain to do on the iPhone.

This is the sort of job I do when sitting on the bed, watching TV and just mucking about with 'the new toy'.

Why should I need a desktop to set up a mobile? That's just a little silly.

As someone pointed out, the iPhone 5 is basically 'a little computer'.

100 years ago I might have been getting a new car... you're suggesting I need to use my horse and cart to get the petrol to put in it.... how about I just drive the car to the 'petrol station'?

I've got an internet connection. I've got a computer. I've got an application. It really should be able to do the rest. What's more, the 'computer' has more than one data system - ie internet and texts. Can we really can integrate all of that to just give me a seamless experience.

We really can improve the whole experience. We really can.... and we should.

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benokobi

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#945376 4-Dec-2013 14:22

andrewNZ: hesus freaking cripes! Something is terribly wrong with either your phone setup, the price you're paying for data, or both.

Personally I think if you're exceeding 12GB of data there is a serious problem.

I have a Telecom plan with 150 odd minutes some stupid amount of SMS and 500MB of data for the fairly reasonable price of $29/m. I truck along just fine on that, and the very few times I've come close to hitting the data limit, I've been warned.

I'm not saying you should move to Telecom, I'm just providing a comparison.

I think I've got this exact plan. But cheaper as I'm through business or something. I've never come close to using all 500mbs.

DonGould

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#945383 4-Dec-2013 14:32

kingjj: Not to mention avoiding bill shock through unchecked usage...

Last time I bought a new car, the dealer filled the tank before I picked it up. They really didn't have to, but they just know the value in making sure I go away with a really great experience.

What did I want?

The obvious question here that no one's really asked is 'What would Don have actually been happy with?'

* The sales guy taking my existing number, using a tool to review my usages, telling the tool what new phone I was purchasing, what phone I'd had in the past and making a really sensible plan recommendation.

* The provider reviewing my usage after 24, 48, 96 hours (etc) and contacting me personally with a plan recommendation.

* My phone number on my new phone before I left the store

* A 'reasonable' collection of software on my device. ie In store they start the 'installer' and the device just loading them up in the background over the data network

* The OS update installed in the back ground before the end of day one, without asking me.

* My 'iTunes account' set up in store - this is what I should have been spending time doing with the sales person, not waiting while they process paper work for everyone else (ie them selves).

D

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DonGould

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#945386 4-Dec-2013 14:34

benokobi: I think I've got this exact plan. But cheaper as I'm through business or something. I've never come close to using all 500mbs.

ya I never managed to chew more than 500mb before either. So I got the new phones and suddenly my usage went nuts...

...but at the same time, we're getting into the G4 world here. G4 is all about using more data, but 5 to 10 times my normal spend... that's not cool.

D

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NikT

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#945388 4-Dec-2013 14:37

DonGould:

2. Is it preloaded?

Worth noting that apps cannot be preloaded on Apple devices as Apple does not allow this. They can be preloaded on Android devices, which could certainly be helpful, but this process is very costly & could potentially delay software updates.

This is in contrast to the infamous non-removable 'operator bloatware' that US-market devices (With the exception of Apple's) are shipped with. Those operators, like you, do seek to give the customer a better out of box experience. But there are trade-offs both ways.

I find the concept of a walkthrough setup experience very interesting, and potentially great. In order for it to be viable in a retail context, though, it would likely need to be a chargeable service & pre-booked - much like the barbecue assembly & delivery. Would you be happy to pay for such a service?

Product Manager @ PB Tech

Smartphones @ PB Tech | Headphones @ PB Tech

tilde

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#945395 4-Dec-2013 14:48

i can't believe i'm reading this, the completely unreasonable expectation of the things you are expecting a sales person, from a general electronics store to do for you as part of the sale. using an analogy of filling up a car with petrol and configuring your phone is apples and oranges.

let's go over your latest gripes

1) in order to review your usage, and provide a recommendation on the best plan he/she would need access to your account to see your usage history. did you offer to show him that? are you confortable with them seeing your personal details on your account?

2) why 24, 48, 96 hours? why not every day for the next year? for the next 10 years? what's the arbitrary line to draw in the sand here. reading it like this the concept does sound a bit ridiculous doesn't it?

3) fair comment on this

4) what do you consider a "reasonable" collection of software on your device. they can't read your mind, and have no idea what you will be using the phone for. everyone's needs is different, imagine the support issues of providing a "reasonable" collection for every purchaser...

5) you can run an iphone without the OS update, it is not mandatory. the fact you choose to do it, and over 3g instead of wifi and then gripe about it is your own fault.

i haven't bothered to answer to each of your other rants, but it looks like you were caught short not doing your research and don't want to take responsibility for it. fair comment on the sales people not being aware of the products they are selling, grant you that.

Inphinity

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#945404 4-Dec-2013 14:56

It seems your valid gripes are with the service (or lack thereof) of a poorly-trained salesdrone at the third-party store, rather than with the mobile provider, and the rest are you simply not wanting to accept any responsibility of having to do anything.

Why don't toyota send someone along to fill up your car in the background without telling you every time it gets low on petrol?

If you want a full-service tutorial and training, there are a few places that offer it. Admittedly, more should, but it would be at cost (even if said cost ends up built into the purchase price - YUCK!).

DonGould

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#945407 4-Dec-2013 15:02

NikT:
DonGould:

2. Is it preloaded?

Worth noting that apps cannot be preloaded on Apple devices as Apple does not allow this. They can be preloaded on Android devices, which could certainly be helpful, but this process is very costly & could potentially delay software updates.

This is in contrast to the infamous non-removable 'operator bloatware' that US-market devices (With the exception of Apple's) are shipped with. Those operators, like you, do seek to give the customer a better out of box experience. But there are trade-offs both ways.

I find the concept of a walkthrough setup experience very interesting, and potentially great. In order for it to be viable in a retail context, though, it would likely need to be a chargeable service & pre-booked - much like the barbecue assembly & delivery. Would you be happy to pay for such a service?

Happy, No.... but would I? Don't know. I'd have to think about that.

But you could 'sell' this to me. How many people buy an extended warranty on something that they just don't need to. CGA?

If you didn't have to spend so much time doing 'your paper work' you'd have more time to actually 'sell me' something useful.

You need to sort out your paper work war so that you have time to spend with me.

I also don't care for "Your bloatware". My S4 came with a stack of it and so far most of it has managed to do little but annoy me.

However, you should care about what I do want. You should care VERY VERY VERY much about what I do want because what I actually want seems to need, an almost, nightly amount of updating.

Let's look at the iPhone 5 List...

* TradeMe app - lost count of the updates on that little pup in the last month and so far I haven't even used it.
* Westpac bank app
* ASB bank app
* ANZ bank app
* Kiwibank app... (yes I have a few banks these days, but all for different reasons and more people I talk to are the same).
* AnyDo - neighbour recommended that one, it's done a few updates... (opps that's on the S4, but you get the idea!)

The list goes on with a few more, all of which have been getting a good suck of the sav.

In the mean time I've been deleting applications.

Deletion is a very negative thing to be doing. It's basically me saying "FFS, I didn't ask the dealer to put all this ad crap in the boot, back seat, front seat, on the windows, etc, of my new car!"

Can you imagine my reaction if I purchased a new car and then had to spend hours over the next week just removing the 'sales decals' off all the windows, mirrors, etc just so I could use the car?

Nik, As a provider you're going to sell me lots of data just doing updates. So the more things you put on my phone that I actually want the better it is for YOU.

The more time I have to spend removing stuff I didn't ask for, the less time I'm spending putting anything on it that I actually want.

Is this device mine or YOURS?

You need to invest in your future business interest. Doing 45 minutes of your paper work is not an investment in me and it's even less of an investment in your business.

Food for thought? :)

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tdgeek

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#945409 4-Dec-2013 15:06

DonGould:
tdgeek: I think the key is a good usage app.

I have a number of questions TD.

1. Why do you have a good app?

Has having a real competitor in the market place empowered your company to put more resource in to providing a better solution for customers?

2. Is it preloaded?

I opened my new phone box, went to the market and then loaded up all the normal stuff that I had on my previous phone (which was an Android, so I had to find all the 'Apple' options).

The first thing the phone wanted to do was download a 700MB OS update.

I did load the 2degrees app up. But I also had to go to the 'real web site' to register. So no, the 'app' is not that good.

3. Do you have a guy who puts BBQs together?

One of the young guys at Harvey Norman gave me his personal business card while I was standing around getting the paper work done. He runs a sideline business. He puts customers BBQs together and drops them off. Harvey Norman also sell BBQs.

At Telecom, do you have a guy who will put my phone together for me? Will he drop it off once it's done?

Do you have a plan so that I don't have to give him my personal information (such as email password) but allows him to 'assemble' my phone ready for use?

Me or You?

My time at the store was all about "you" and nothing about "me".

It was about doing 2Degrees paper work, GE paper work, Harvey Norman paper work and nothing about me.

To be about 'me' it would mean I would have left with an iPhone 5, with 0211140699 as its phone number, applications loaded that I typically use, the OS up to date and just ready for me to enter personal data (if you didn't actually walk me through that in store).

I should be able to get everything done in 30 minutes.

If this is not possible in a G4 world, with 100GE fibre running up and down the country on more than one fibre network, then I think we really Really REALLY need to be having a rethink, don't you?

D

Hi Don

1.
So I can keep an eye on calls and data, to avoid excess usage charges and to alert should I see an unexpected use of data. Excess usage has always been an issue with landline based BB , less so now with high data allowances, an app is convenient for customers, helps reduce bill shock.

2. No, not preloaded. I just setup my 5s and that was all via wifi as you get the option on turn on to enable wifi to your access point. I got the update to from 7.03 but I restored from backup, synced, and ran the update last via wifi

3. I can't comment on your experience with 2D, but I can ask the Telecom store where I got two 4G sims yesterday what level they will go to. And more so, what they would tell a customer who is getting first smartphone as what to do re setup.

I'm not sure if your post was being aggravated at my comment re an app, hope not. I think we have all been stung by I don't know what I don't know before. I'll talk to the store as to what support they can provide for initial setup though. If I worked at a store I would be wanting to pass on advice and at least partial setup for a new user for sure, and I am glad that 2D resolved some of the bill too, good stuff.

Above is my personal comment, not from my employer.

DonGould

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#945412 4-Dec-2013 15:09

tilde: i can't believe i'm reading this, the completely unreasonable expectation of the things you are expecting a sales person, from a general electronics store to do for you as part of the sale. using an analogy of filling up a car with petrol and configuring your phone is apples and oranges.

let's go over your latest gripes

1) in order to review your usage, and provide a recommendation on the best plan he/she would need access to your account to see your usage history. did you offer to show him that? are you confortable with them seeing your personal details on your account?

2) why 24, 48, 96 hours? why not every day for the next year? for the next 10 years? what's the arbitrary line to draw in the sand here. reading it like this the concept does sound a bit ridiculous doesn't it?

3) fair comment on this

4) what do you consider a "reasonable" collection of software on your device. they can't read your mind, and have no idea what you will be using the phone for. everyone's needs is different, imagine the support issues of providing a "reasonable" collection for every purchaser...

5) you can run an iphone without the OS update, it is not mandatory. the fact you choose to do it, and over 3g instead of wifi and then gripe about it is your own fault.

i haven't bothered to answer to each of your other rants, but it looks like you were caught short not doing your research and don't want to take responsibility for it. fair comment on the sales people not being aware of the products they are selling, grant you that.

1 - I wasn't even asked. We can write an app that could give a sale person a reasonable heads up to make a reasonable recommendation.

2 - Agreed. The provider should be attending to this every hour of every day and reacting accordingly. We can write a platform that would do this.

3 - Thanks - what did I say?

4 - Given that I walked in with a p450, a reasonable collection would be a mirror of what I already had on my existing smart phone, then 10 minutes of my time to review some educated suggestions.

5 - We need to rethink software updating again if we can't push an OS update to the device in 15 minutes over wifi. I was in store for over an hour.

6 - You're right, I didn't do that much research. That week I really just didn't have time to spend on this. I was just doing a phone upgrade, not choosing a school for my child, a new house, new shoes, a hair cut, just updating my phone. We need to get some perspective and get phone purchases that are less than $1500 back in the right box.

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DonGould

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#945417 4-Dec-2013 15:17

tdgeek: I'm not sure if your post was being aggravated at my comment re an app, hope not.

...

Above is my personal comment, not from my employer.

TD your comments were great and no one has been aggravating at all.

As far as I'm concerned this has been a very constructive discussion thread so far.

A number of people have 'liked' a number of the comments that others have made, which indicates that a few folk are reading and just thinking about the issues.

This is what I like about this forum. It's a great place for discussion.

People like Simon, Peter and John, who have all chimed in and all work for different providers, all know that their views or comments are only ever taken as a brief presentation of their personal thoughts on the spur of the moment and that discussion here really is "Chatham House Rules".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_House_Rule

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