Terrible upload on VDSL and 2degrees provides no support?

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Terrible upload on VDSL and 2degrees provides no support?

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58 posts

Master Geek

#1654841 20-Oct-2016 00:00

smellsbad:

As we own the home and have no other devices anywhere on the circuit, nor intend on ever having any, I'm just going to see if I can find the entry point and run from there directly. One cable, straight to jack point for the router. No filter should be required then I'm assuming?

Good question. I'm absolutely no expert on these things but I'd imagine that you would still need to split the voice and xDSL signals to get the best results, which would require a filter which PB Tech sells for $20.

Anyway, depends on whether I meet Shelob's daughter under the house. I'm not liking my chances of surviving the trip under the house.

In my case, getting to the filter location was going to require some serious climbing, dangling on ladders and balancing on a porch roof above, what I would perceive, as the Grand Canyon. Nothing good was going to come of that and the way I looked at it, $199 wasn't a bad deal for not ending up in the emergency room. It was a pain in the backside, for sure, but it made quite a difference to our internet connection which went from okayish (ADSL) to crap (VDSL) without the filter installed.

Shame about the beers. I like beers.

I think the transaction would have worked the other way around actually but then again, beer is best enjoyed in good company.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1654845 20-Oct-2016 00:18

There is mixed opinions on if a filter helps on a naked connection, some say it does with technical arguments as to why...

Personally, i put it down to another point of failure and go with a clean line in that case - I have actually had filters fail before, that is not a pretty result at all! (the last one had been in there for 5 or so years...)

myself, i absolutely hate having to adjust the one here. New cable runs mean being under the house at the shallowest point, that just does not work being the tallest in the family!

Far easier to bait out a cause for someone else to do the grunt work ;)

recently i did another rewire, while i was down there redirected all the phonelines to a more realistic build for a star configuration (if you ever want to confuse a tech, have a star wired phone system that terminates in the ETP they literally freak out... why it originally wasnt terminated properly i have no idea.)

end result, until i need more Ethernet points ran i wont be going under there to tinker again!

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

smellsbad

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Geek

#1663283 3-Nov-2016 12:37

Progress for us. Our terminating cable (the black one from the road) is now hooked directly into a brand new RJ45 socket. There is one cable RJ45 to RJ11 from the socket to the router.

After badgering the ISP to reset the port so DLM would start fresh, this is where we are after an hour from that port reset.

A significant improvement, and hoping it stays that way over the next 10 days as aggressive DLM is carried out.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1663323 3-Nov-2016 13:52

now that is look far more healthy!

Give it a spot of time, see how things go. i can see potentional for some improvement.

I do note you have changed your fritzOS version between screenshots, Do be aware there were some large changes to the software side of the DSL stack and the results may not be directly comparable.

You may potentially want to get your hands on one of the HG529 modems, as their broadcom chipset is likely to sync higher, that is if you are wanting to squeeze anything else out though.

As the fritz takes a full rj45 connection for the WAN port, i would recommend you use a straight cat6 cable. shoving a RJ11 into it is not ideal.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

smellsbad

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#1663333 3-Nov-2016 14:16

hio77:

As the fritz takes a full rj45 connection for the WAN port, i would recommend you use a straight cat6 cable. shoving a RJ11 into it is not ideal.

I'm using the common phone cable that came with it, didn't realise the ADSL/VDSL port on the Fritz could take RJ45 (i'm assuming it's the same port but designed to accommodate both?)

It came with an ethernet cable, not sure of cable spec, and not sure if that's okay to use or is the wiring config different?

If it can, I'll let it run for 24 hours, then restart the router "softly" tomorrow and swap out the cable. Unless a quick restart now doesn't impact things too much with DLM?

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1663334 3-Nov-2016 14:22

ild recommend giving it the 24 hours then swapping it out, its a full RJ45 port, designed to take POTS DSL and a few other things.

Highly recommend a rj45 (if you have the metal bound one that often comes with the fritz, that is definitely a great one to use)

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

smellsbad

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#1663340 3-Nov-2016 14:42

hio77:

ild recommend giving it the 24 hours then swapping it out, its a full RJ45 port, designed to take POTS DSL and a few other things.

Highly recommend a rj45 (if you have the metal bound one that often comes with the fritz, that is definitely a great one to use)

Awesome, I'll swap out tomorrow and see how it goes. I'm happy with 20Mbps/1.25Mbps as it's still better than the ADSL I was getting, but had really hoped to get 2Mbps or even a little more up for my video uploads.

Will be closely monitoring it over the next couple of weeks.

Thanks for all the advice and information, much appreciated!

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hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1663342 3-Nov-2016 14:45

smellsbad:

hio77:

ild recommend giving it the 24 hours then swapping it out, its a full RJ45 port, designed to take POTS DSL and a few other things.

Highly recommend a rj45 (if you have the metal bound one that often comes with the fritz, that is definitely a great one to use)

Awesome, I'll swap out tomorrow and see how it goes. I'm happy with 20Mbps/1.25Mbps as it's still better than the ADSL I was getting, but had really hoped to get 2Mbps or even a little more up for my video uploads.

Will be closely monitoring it over the next couple of weeks.

Thanks for all the advice and information, much appreciated!

end of the day, the move to PTM rather than ATM will give you a slight stepup in reduced overhead loss. so even identical upstream ADSL and VDSL, VDSL will end up marginally faster.

Give it time, i definitely see room for improvement. Outside of your DLM period settling period, i would recommend a modem reboot in the wee hours too. long as error rates stay low, you will gain some more bits from the noisefloor being a bit lower.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

sorceror

163 posts

Master Geek

#1663440 3-Nov-2016 18:54

hio77:

smellsbad:

hio77:

ild recommend giving it the 24 hours then swapping it out, its a full RJ45 port, designed to take POTS DSL and a few other things.

Highly recommend a rj45 (if you have the metal bound one that often comes with the fritz, that is definitely a great one to use)

Awesome, I'll swap out tomorrow and see how it goes. I'm happy with 20Mbps/1.25Mbps as it's still better than the ADSL I was getting, but had really hoped to get 2Mbps or even a little more up for my video uploads.

Will be closely monitoring it over the next couple of weeks.

Thanks for all the advice and information, much appreciated!

end of the day, the move to PTM rather than ATM will give you a slight stepup in reduced overhead loss. so even identical upstream ADSL and VDSL, VDSL will end up marginally faster.

Give it time, i definitely see room for improvement. Outside of your DLM period settling period, i would recommend a modem reboot in the wee hours too. long as error rates stay low, you will gain some more bits from the noisefloor being a bit lower.

when it comes to overheads, how data is encapsulated in the upstream network doesn't really matter as long as it doesn't affect the end-to-end MTU through to the customer.

typically in NZ ADSL is delivered over PPPoA with a 1500 MTU and VDSL is PPPoE with a 1492 MTU - in this case there is a higher overhead with VDSL due to PPP, so given an equivalent sync rate you would actually get lower goodput on VDSL (<1% difference though and only on max packet size)

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1663442 3-Nov-2016 18:56

sorceror:

when it comes to overheads, how data is encapsulated in the upstream network doesn't really matter as long as it doesn't affect the end-to-end MTU through to the customer.

typically in NZ ADSL is delivered over PPPoA with a 1500 MTU and VDSL is PPPoE with a 1492 MTU - in this case there is a higher overhead with VDSL due to PPP, so given an equivalent sync rate you would actually get lower goodput on ADSL (<1% difference though and only on max packet size)

Yes extremely minor amount of difference, but its there none the less.

Personally PPPoA may aswell be buba so i must clarify when i make a statement like that im expected PPPoE for adsl, which any reasonable provider should support.

#include <std_disclaimer>

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sorceror

163 posts

Master Geek

#1663447 3-Nov-2016 19:04

hio77:

sorceror:

when it comes to overheads, how data is encapsulated in the upstream network doesn't really matter as long as it doesn't affect the end-to-end MTU through to the customer.

typically in NZ ADSL is delivered over PPPoA with a 1500 MTU and VDSL is PPPoE with a 1492 MTU - in this case there is a higher overhead with VDSL due to PPP, so given an equivalent sync rate you would actually get lower goodput on ADSL (<1% difference though and only on max packet size)

Yes extremely minor amount of difference, but its there none the less.

Personally PPPoA may aswell be buba so i must clarify when i make a statement like that im expected PPPoE for adsl, which any reasonable provider should support.

I typo'd that - meant to say VDSL will be worse.

not sure why you say it may aswell be BUBA, EUBA is routinely delivered using PPPoA - in fact i don't think you can even turn the PPPoA PVC off on EUBA.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1663454 3-Nov-2016 19:21

sorceror:

not sure why you say it may aswell be BUBA, EUBA is routinely delivered using PPPoA - in fact i don't think you can even turn the PPPoA PVC off on EUBA.

I personally see no use for PPPoA at all in EUBA, all it leads to is any bridging situation depending on PPPoE->PPPoA translation or a dodgy halfbridge implantation. Far more effective to bridge and terminate directly vlan 10 PPPoE 110/0

Sure it does work, but soon as your network is more complicated than a simple RWG supporting it is simply a hassle.

I am aware this setup does not work in all cases however applicable to most.

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sbiddle

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#1663477 3-Nov-2016 20:43

sorcerer:

typically in NZ ADSL is delivered over PPPoA with a 1500 MTU and VDSL is PPPoE with a 1492 MTU - in this case there is a higher overhead with VDSL due to PPP, so given an equivalent sync rate you would actually get lower goodput on VDSL (<1% difference though and only on max packet size)

PPPoA and PPPoE are normally 1492 on most ISP's. There are exceptions to this, and a number (including Spark being the most obvious) who offer 1500 bytes for both.

hio77

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#1663482 3-Nov-2016 21:05

sbiddle:

sorcerer:

typically in NZ ADSL is delivered over PPPoA with a 1500 MTU and VDSL is PPPoE with a 1492 MTU - in this case there is a higher overhead with VDSL due to PPP, so given an equivalent sync rate you would actually get lower goodput on VDSL (<1% difference though and only on max packet size)

PPPoA and PPPoE are normally 1492 on most ISP's. There are exceptions to this, and a number (including Spark being the most obvious) who offer 1500 bytes for both.

Thought it was 1492, didnt have the data on hand to backup that however!

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

smellsbad

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#1663495 3-Nov-2016 22:04

Just one more quick question. My "Not Remediable Errors(CRC)" are averaging at 0.26 per minute over the last 10 hours.

Is that good, bad or doesn't really matter?

I've had no SES errors at all since the new wiring and 3 "central exchange" errors in that 10 hour period.

These are all significantly lower than before the wiring was done.

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