2degrees to close down 2G access in March 2018

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#1867273 16-Sep-2017 12:50

Any idea if Skinny will launch their switch before you are ditched advertising again? I never got to find out from last time how they were purposing to get 2G devices to work on a 3G network.

Ironicly, due to 2deg switching off 2G. Some legacy devices are almost certain to be migrated to Vodafone. Meaning Vodafone will be able to justify keeping 2G available for longer.

tripper1000

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#1868076 18-Sep-2017 14:44

Bugger! 99% of my usage is voice or text and 2G sips the battery, giving me 2 or 3 times the battery life of 3G.

I joined 2degrees when they were 2G only. How things have changed - who am I kidding - Spark customers would be used to throwing away perfectly serviceable phones every 5 years.

Oh well, fair-well to the most advanced 2G network New Zealand ever had.

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#1868176 18-Sep-2017 18:35

tripper1000:

Bugger! 99% of my usage is voice or text and 2G sips the battery, giving me 2 or 3 times the battery life of 3G.

Is it still that bad though? When 3G was only available at 2100 MHz and most phones had crappy 3G chipsets it was common for 2G/3G modes to use more battery. Limited 3G coverage required a lot of 2G-to/from-3G handovers while travelling which I suspect caused much of the battery drain issues (rather than 3G itself being the culprit). Some of the earlier chipsets weren't very well optimised but this hasn't been the case for years. Therefore with 900 MHz coverage being on par for both 2G and 3G (reducing the amount of 2G-to/from-3G handovers to near zero) and efficient 3G chipsets I suspect it's now more energy efficient to use 3G than 2G if you have the option.

tripper1000

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#1870397 21-Sep-2017 17:09

KiwiSurfer:

tripper1000:

Bugger! 99% of my usage is voice or text and 2G sips the battery, giving me 2 or 3 times the battery life of 3G.

Is it still that bad though? When 3G was only available at 2100 MHz and most phones had crappy 3G chipsets it was common for 2G/3G modes to use more battery. Limited 3G coverage required a lot of 2G-to/from-3G handovers while travelling which I suspect caused much of the battery drain issues (rather than 3G itself being the culprit). Some of the earlier chipsets weren't very well optimised but this hasn't been the case for years. Therefore with 900 MHz coverage being on par for both 2G and 3G (reducing the amount of 2G-to/from-3G handovers to near zero) and efficient 3G chipsets I suspect it's now more energy efficient to use 3G than 2G if you have the option.

Yeah, there is a very noticeable difference on my daily (indestructible/practical) phone which is old Nokia 2G/3G with UMTS900. Dunno how much 3G chipsets have improved since it was made, but Nokia's were always quite energy conscious. Coverage at work is fairly poor (2 bars), but it will get 5 - 6 days easily on a charge on 2G and 3 or 2 days if I'm not lucky on 3G. If I flick it to 3G to do some email and forget to switch it back it usually catches me out.

The fact that UMTS900 exists doesn't necessarily mean power consumption will be the same between 2G and 3G. It also depends on the network - on 3G it will bump you phone up to 2100MHz if it can, as there is more bandwidth/capacity there. So 2G you stay stuck at 900 MHz but on 3G you can be bouncing between the 900 and 2100. Maybe if you could lock it to UTMS900 you'd see some power savings?

I found an app that let me see the band my S5 was using, and I could see it register on band 8 (900 Mhz) and then jump up to band 1 (2100 MHz) and the signal bars drop down. It seems to stick with 2100 until the signal complete fades before it goes back to 900.

It isn't only the frequency that matters - 3G is a wide band signal that requires a little more grunt to transmit and a little more processing power to encode/decode. Not sure how much that influences the battery life.

There are references all over Google such as this which shows 3G using well over double of 2G - nothing up-to-date though - LTE will be the focus now days.

SaltyNZ

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#1870461 21-Sep-2017 19:27

tripper1000:

There are references all over Google such as this which shows 3G using well over double of 2G - nothing up-to-date though - LTE will be the focus now days.

That document is dated October 2008. A lot has changed in the last 9 years.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Nil Einne

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#1911808 1-Dec-2017 20:10

Just found out about this. One thing not mentioned that I saw is this is likely to affect quite a few of those who use dual SIM phones. Many of these only support 3G/4G on one (selectable) SIM, the one you choose for data which makes sense since you probably want the second SIM mostly for voice or SMS. In NZ this has meant your second SIM can't be Spark (including Skinny etc). Personally I've found it useful when I've bought the cheap clearance Spark packs from Warehouse since I can use them for data without having to port my number all the time. But anyway, after March 2018 you won't be able to have the second SIM as 2degrees either.

Some of the newer ones do support dual standby 3G/4G although it's I think still a lot rarer. I've found that as phones move toward 4G, many aren't coming with 3G 850 mhz either and of course no band 28 for 4G, so using Spark is getting trickier anyway.

I don't think this is a market that is going to particularly interest Vodafone, nor those with ancient phones. But I wonder if the device market others mentioned might be enough to encourage them to keep 2G active for a while longer. I also wonder if there might be enough interest from roaming to help. Yes all the big money is in data, but there must still be some interest from voice and maybe SMS and from what I've seen the majority of new phones by far seem to quad band 2G. Vodafone should also be less starved for spectrum.

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#1911810 1-Dec-2017 20:16

I think you'll find that dual 3g/4g phones are quite common now. My Motorola G4 Plus I bought last year does this. Very handy with a Skinny and Spark SIM.

Regards,

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Nil Einne

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#1911864 2-Dec-2017 02:59

It's true that there are a lot more than 2 years ago, but I'm fairly sure my statement was accurate, dual SIM with both supporting at least 3G are still a lot rarer. For example when it comes to MediaTek chipsets (which still dominate much of the Chinese manufacturer smartphone market), from what I can tell it's mostly only the Helio chipsets that support dual 3G. The MT6750/MT6750T for example do not. (See this phone for example.) I'm fairly sure it's the same for the MT6738/6738T. And see here http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/dual_sim_4g3g_phones and https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/help/dual-sim-simultaneous-4g-3g-capable-t3370632 for more discussion.

Also we should not underestimate how recent this is, not everyone upgrades every year or even every 2 years. It seems even some LG G5 and Galaxy S7 dual SIM variants don't support dual SIM 3G/4G. Or rather it's possibly internally supported by disabled in some firmware for unclear reasons (possibly due to issues) http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2529661 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2529661 https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s7/help/how-to-enable-4g-3g-xsa-firmware-t3561777 https://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-g5/help/lg-g5-dual-sim-australia-t3497192 . (I think they've finally stopped this with the S8 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2625679 and LG G6, but I didn't look that carefully) And these are high end phones!

And it isn't just there where this problem exists, see e.g. this https://forum.xda-developers.com/le-2/how-to/phone-support-4g-3g-t3602742 which uses a Helio X20 but also seems to have either hardware or software variants which don't support dual 3G or better.

The MT6739 just recently launched which is entry level and does support dual 3G or better https://www.mediatek.com/blog/worlds-first-dual-4g-sim-solution-with-dual-volte-vilte-support , and that combined with the Helios seemingly taking most of the midrange and increasing switchoffs around the world are likely to mean this probably won't be much of an issue in 2 - 3 years. But it remains so now and given how long it will take for the MT6739 or something else to be in most new phones I think that's a resonable time frame. (Although I expect we'll still have the band issues, especially since 4G is so messy.) Well except for those who keep an entry level phone for 3 years or so.

Or to put it a different way, yes you definitely have quite a few options for dual SIM phones but if you already have one it wouldn't be particularly surprising if you find it doesn't support dual 3G, even if it was launched in the middle of this year.

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#1953516 8-Feb-2018 10:19

Just received:

You might like your battered old flip phone that just does calling and text. Or maybe you can’t be bothered upgrading that antique handset in the glovebox, or that tired EFTPOS machine you’ve been meaning to replace.

But a bit like the day you bought your first CD, in favour of a tape, (even though you kept that vinyl collection)… it’s time.

2degrees customers, with 2G devices, have until March 15 to upgrade them before 2G services will be shut down across the company’s nationwide network.

2degrees CEO Stewart Sherriff says following the company’s announcement in September 2017, a good proportion of 2G customers have already upgraded their devices.

“We’d like to thank recent 2G customers who have already upgraded to 3G or 4G devices, and remind those who may still have a 2G device that it really is time to move on.”

“As we said in September, we are making this change to better serve the majority of our customers’ needs, and their voracious demand for 4G services, but we are also committed to helping 2G customers upgrade.”

Customers can contact 2degrees with questions or visit 2dm.co.nz/2g to check if their mobile phone is a 2G handset and what their upgrade options are. As a general rule, 2G only mobiles are not smartphones. 2degrees stopped selling 2G mobile phones in 2015.

Mr Sherriff says 2degrees will also continue its customer contact programme to help remaining 2G customers with the process.

“We would also like to remind 2G customers that they can recycle their old 2G phones through the RE: MOBILE programme, if you drop into store to upgrade your phone you can recycle your old handset at the same time.”

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#1953517 8-Feb-2018 10:22

Whats Voda's position on GPRS again? 4 more years?

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Antoniosk

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#1953522 8-Feb-2018 10:27

This is good news I have seen 2Degrees 4G coverage just north of Auckland on band8 900Mhz - 3Mhz

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#1953523 8-Feb-2018 10:28

antoniosk:

Whats Voda's position on GPRS again? 4 more years?

I'm going to hazard a very educated guess that GPRS will be available to some corporate customers for at least another 5 years. Too many 2G smart meters out there to replace so soon.

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#1953524 8-Feb-2018 10:28

antoniosk:

Whats Voda's position on GPRS again? 4 more years?

Easy for 4 years I suspect

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Starscream122

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#1953557 8-Feb-2018 11:29

knoydart:

antoniosk:

Whats Voda's position on GPRS again? 4 more years?

I'm going to hazard a very educated guess that GPRS will be available to some corporate customers for at least another 5 years. Too many 2G smart meters out there to replace so soon.

Why would Smart Meters be 2G only? I would think they would at least have 3G

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#1953558 8-Feb-2018 11:31

Starscream122:

knoydart:

antoniosk:

Whats Voda's position on GPRS again? 4 more years?

I'm going to hazard a very educated guess that GPRS will be available to some corporate customers for at least another 5 years. Too many 2G smart meters out there to replace so soon.

Why would Smart Meters be 2G only? I would think they would at least have 3G

The Smart meters were installed many+ years ago

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