2degrees: Changes to IP Addresses (CGNAT)

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Prodigi

#2304344 23-Aug-2019 08:35

hio77:

Taking my spark hat off for a min.
I'll be honest. Apart from Cloudflare I find sparks routes to be some of the better over other providers for both speed and latency.

I'd be interested to see some comparisons. More than happy to be corrected! I guess that could be a side effect of Spark requiring paid peering to get to them, is that those links are more well managed than a peering exchange where you get a mountain of routes from a menagerie of providers.

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hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2304378 23-Aug-2019 09:12

danielfaulknor:
hio77:

Taking my spark hat off for a min.
I'll be honest. Apart from Cloudflare I find sparks routes to be some of the better over other providers for both speed and latency.

I'd be interested to see some comparisons. More than happy to be corrected! I guess that could be a side effect of Spark requiring paid peering to get to them, is that those links are more well managed than a peering exchange where you get a mountain of routes from a menagerie of providers.

Will pull out some at some stage for you.

Being that I'm multihomed, I've got plenty of routes setup in a prioritised out spark or out other interfaces as suits my requirements.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

timmmay

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#2304401 23-Aug-2019 09:24

Do Spark peer directly with CloudFlare? A lot of sites use CloudFlare so not having that would slow things down.

Do Spark connect into Sydney for low latency access to AWS / Azure?

cyril7

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#2304403 23-Aug-2019 09:28

timmmay:

Do Spark peer directly with CloudFlare? A lot of sites use CloudFlare so not having that would slow things down.

Do Sparx connect into Sydney for low latency access to AWS / Azure?

No, hence I get a 150ms plus to GZ from Wgtn

stephen@TeRopata:~$ traceroute www.geekzone.co.nz
traceroute to www.geekzone.co.nz (104.24.2.14), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 0.287 ms 0.326 ms 0.396 ms
2 * * *
3 * * *
4 122.56.xxx.4 (122.56.xxx.4) 12.738 ms 12.669 ms 12.678 ms
5 ae7-2.akbr7.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.119.53) 12.625 ms 12.690 ms 12.624 ms
6 xe5-0-7.sgbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.232.38) 37.780 ms xe5-0-0.sgbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.232.242) 36.834 ms xe7-0-4.sgbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.127.2) 36.731 ms
7 ae2-10.sgbr4.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.232.246) 36.692 ms 35.199 ms 35.777 ms
8 103.13.80.125 (103.13.80.125) 35.536 ms 35.632 ms 35.488 ms
9 ae-11.r31.tokyjp05.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.5.34) 147.255 ms 165.903 ms 150.024 ms
10 ae-3.r00.tokyjp08.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.6.129) 149.381 ms 149.401 ms 150.205 ms
11 61.120.144.42 (61.120.144.42) 220.656 ms 220.661 ms *
12 104.24.2.14 (104.24.2.14) 151.008 ms 149.501 ms 149.846 ms

Edit, my servers in AWS Syd are 32mS away so clearly route direct.

Cyril

timmmay

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#2304418 23-Aug-2019 09:48

cyril7:

timmmay:

Do Spark peer directly with CloudFlare? A lot of sites use CloudFlare so not having that would slow things down.

Do Sparx connect into Sydney for low latency access to AWS / Azure?

No, hence I get a 150ms plus to GZ from Wgtn

Disappointing that CloudFlare isn't peered, they must be going well offshore to get a 150ms ping. Good that AWS is close though.

littlehead

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#2304436 23-Aug-2019 10:08

michaelmurfy:

Come on guys - there has been no official word just yet on how they're going to do this, if customers can opt-out etc so stop jumping to conclusions and blowing things out of proportion is all I can say.

For the majority of their customers - I don't think they'll notice a thing.

For the few that need a public IP - there will be a plan around this, just wait.

While I agree that people might be jumping to conclusions, based on 2Degrees general good history of doing the right thing etc, by releasing that webpage and not saying what options are available for existing customers and if they can opt-out or manage port forwards on the cgnat etc is a PR fail. Without adding that kind of information it just invites this kind of speculation. 2Degrees should of been well aware of the backlash of only partially releasing information, if it is indeed only partial. For all we know there is no opt-out and the only option is a paid static IP, that is the impression the webpage gives. We just don't know, and that is the issue.

I just moved to 2degrees after waiting 4+ years in consent hell waiting for fibre. I had a free static IP with Bigpipe on DSL but I don't need one as long as i can get a public IP, the extra cost on 2Degrees was prohibitive. If my only way to get a public IP is paying for a static IP then I will probably stump up and pay but definitely change providers when my contract is up.

muppet

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#2304440 23-Aug-2019 10:14

My ISP's IP at home isn't on CGNAT, so I had to buy another router to stick inline, so that my "home" router then talks to my "CGNAT" router, and that router gets my public IP Address and hands my "home" router the RFC 6598 CGNAT IP.

Internet<->CGNAT ROUTER<->HOME ROUTER<->LAN(clients)

Thus while I don't have an ISP that does CGNAT for me, I still end up with CGNAT on my home router.

(I don't like to miss out)

I also don't peer with anyone, so that's pretty awesome too.

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hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2304441 23-Aug-2019 10:14

timmmay:

Do Spark peer directly with CloudFlare? A lot of sites use CloudFlare so not having that would slow things down.

Do Sparx connect into Sydney for low latency access to AWS / Azure?

cloudflare has been discussed heavily here so i wont entertain that.

I will say that i dont actually personally choose to route cloudflare traffic out my interface that gives 8ms latency, as i actually get a worse user experience in terms of throughput there.

As to AWS, that's been answered by others. Azure is also a key one for spark (remembering Azure dont have full compute nodes for some of their stuff in aus yet...)

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

NickMack

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#2304443 23-Aug-2019 10:17

Hi All,

Sorry I've been OOF for a day or so. Thanks for the feedback/comments, I am following up with various parties to prepare a response, I wanted to reply here so that you're aware that things are going on in the background vs. radio silence.

Nick.

https://nick.mackechnie.co.nz | NZ ISP latency monitoring - https://smokeping.thenet.gen.nz

cyril7

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#2304444 23-Aug-2019 10:18

muppet:

My ISP's IP at home isn't on CGNAT, so I had to buy another router to stick inline, so that my "home" router then talks to my "CGNAT" router, and that router gets my public IP Address and hands my "home" router the RFC 6598 CGNAT IP.

Internet<->CGNAT ROUTER<->HOME ROUTER<->LAN(clients)

Thus while I don't have an ISP that does CGNAT for me, I still end up with CGNAT on my home router.

(I don't like to miss out)

I also don't peer with anyone, so that's pretty awesome too.

Please entertain me, why would you do that? it makes no sense

Cyril

Resnick

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#2304453 23-Aug-2019 10:37

muppet:

My ISP's IP at home isn't on CGNAT, so I had to buy another router to stick inline, so that my "home" router then talks to my "CGNAT" router, and that router gets my public IP Address and hands my "home" router the RFC 6598 CGNAT IP.

Internet<->CGNAT ROUTER<->HOME ROUTER<->LAN(clients)

Thus while I don't have an ISP that does CGNAT for me, I still end up with CGNAT on my home router.

(I don't like to miss out)

I also don't peer with anyone, so that's pretty awesome too.

Did you forget the /s ?

muppet

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#2304470 23-Aug-2019 11:10

cyril7:

muppet:

My ISP's IP at home isn't on CGNAT, so I had to buy another router to stick inline, so that my "home" router then talks to my "CGNAT" router, and that router gets my public IP Address and hands my "home" router the RFC 6598 CGNAT IP.

Internet<->CGNAT ROUTER<->HOME ROUTER<->LAN(clients)

Thus while I don't have an ISP that does CGNAT for me, I still end up with CGNAT on my home router.

(I don't like to miss out)

I also don't peer with anyone, so that's pretty awesome too.

Please entertain me, why would you do that? it makes no sense

Cyril

So I can ring up my ISP and complain about CGNAT, obviously!!!

;)

cyril7

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#2304473 23-Aug-2019 11:15

CutCutCut

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#2304476 23-Aug-2019 11:24

I was just about to re-sign for another year but I think I'll hold off until I know what is happening around this, it was one of the reasons I chose 2degrees in the first place, and they've been great.

kiwibob1

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#2304477 23-Aug-2019 11:29

timmmay:

I turned IPv6 off on my router / PCs as weird things started happening (can't remember what it was 2 years ago), but maybe it's time to try it again.

I've been running with IPv6 on 2degrees for several years with no problems that I recall (Ubiquity USG router). Definitely give it a go.

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