first time user, last time buyer

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › first time user, last time buyer

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808 posts

Ultimate Geek

#480993 14-Jun-2011 13:49

Teeps:
gjm: anything that 2 degrees does to help you is a bonus. I agree with what has been said previously in that once you clicked buy, the product was yours. You should be thankful that they will take the product back just because you changed your mind. The fault lies with you, you should be grateful instead of complaining.

I'm guessing you haven't even glanced at the T&Cs then? 2degrees haven't made this offer to the OP on just this occasion, it is in their T&C. There's nothing to be grateful for, they advertise this as a benefit of purchasing from them!

Seems to me they say a lot of "should" and "may" but not "we definitely will". Good on them for trying to put something right when they legally don't have too. I stand by my opinion.

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kiwipoet22

27 posts

Geek

#480998 14-Jun-2011 13:54

gjm:
Teeps:
gjm: anything that 2 degrees does to help you is a bonus. I agree with what has been said previously in that once you clicked buy, the product was yours. You should be thankful that they will take the product back just because you changed your mind. The fault lies with you, you should be grateful instead of complaining.

I'm guessing you haven't even glanced at the T&Cs then? 2degrees haven't made this offer to the OP on just this occasion, it is in their T&C. There's nothing to be grateful for, they advertise this as a benefit of purchasing from them!

Seems to me they say a lot of "should" and "may" but not "we definitely will". Good on them for trying to put something right when they legally don't have too. I stand by my opinion.?

And that's your opinion, you can stand by that.

And what iv posted, on what's been going on is mine.
I'm not compaining, let.

I'm pointing out the fact, that their ordering system seems to be broken and is not working.

Within 24 hours of calling them on sunday, they could have very easily canceled the order.
They also charged my card a full day before shipping the item,
That's not right,

Teeps

501 posts

Ultimate Geek

#481004 14-Jun-2011 14:06

gjm: Seems to me they say a lot of "should" and "may" but not "we definitely will". Good on them for trying to put something right when they legally don't have too. I stand by my opinion.?

Yes, it is a bit bad that the terms and conditions are so ambiguous and obviously open to interpretation (as long as it's not in the customers favour!). Even though T&Cs are usually full of mumbo jumbo they should still state the position and terms both the seller and purchaser abide by.

It's good you have your opinions and you stand by them, and I am sure you will think back to this when you have a grievance with the way you have been delt when you believe it to be unfair.

nakedmolerat

4629 posts

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#481098 14-Jun-2011 17:07

dontpanic42:

I use quite a few online stores, and none of them have ever charge my credit card before the day of dispatch, always ON the same day of dispatch. It's just common sense.

i bought item >$1000 from elive.co.nz. i got charged as soon as i placed my order despite my item is still in australia and took about 1 week+ (from other warehouse to elive, from elive to me)

i bought complete desktop from computerlounge.co.nz (>$3000). i got charged as soon as i placed my order despite it takes up to 2-3 days before it is ready and dispatched

ordered books from fishpond, i got charged as soon as order was placed. ordered 2 books but one arrived first and the other one is a week later as it is not in stock. i got charged for both book at the same time.

so far, i have not yet come across online shop that charged your credit card only on the day of it being dispatched.

richms

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#481108 14-Jun-2011 17:32

IMO a business operating non account sales should not take any action to pack or process an order till it is paid in full.

Those that expect companies to not charge a card before it goes out the door are in a fantasy land. That should be the date for any invoice related to warranty matters, but to incurr costs in picking and packing and labeling etc before getting paid is really not on.

I am fully behind 2degrees on this one. The OP seems to have a sense of over entitlement about being able to back out of any deal made just because their situation has changed. Its the same reason that businesses have to have signs up saying they dont have to refund because you changed your mind. And in this case 2degrees do not have to, and are charging an IMO reasonable $20 restock fee.

You expect them to run around cancelling an order that you agreed to place at zero cost? Fat chance. Probably wasted more than $20 of their time on your indecision already.

Richard rich.ms

dontpanic42

1574 posts

Uber Geek

#481113 14-Jun-2011 17:48

nakedmolerat:
i bought item >$1000 from elive.co.nz. i got charged as soon as i placed my order despite my item is still in australia and took about 1 week+ (from other warehouse to elive, from elive to me)

I suppose there is a certain liability when something is being sourced from overseas, and as such, in this situation it's not unreasonable for you to be charged upon your item leaving the foreign warehouse.

i bought complete desktop from computerlounge.co.nz (>$3000). i got charged as soon as i placed my order despite it takes up to 2-3 days before it is ready and dispatched

Again, there is some assumption of liability with this type of purchase. The computer parts ARE yours, however you have agreed to allow up 2-3 days for assembly time. Computerlounge don't want to go through all the steps of assembling your computer, and then have you turn around and say that you don't want your personally customized computer anymore.

ordered books from fishpond, i got charged as soon as order was placed. ordered 2 books but one arrived first and the other one is a week later as it is not in stock. i got charged for both book at the same time.

When you ordered the books, did they specifically state estimated shipping times (i.e. 4-8 days.. or similar), or did they all say In Stock?

so far, i have not yet come across online shop that charged your credit card only on the day of it being dispatched.

Admittedly, I may have been "pampered" you could say, with the places I choose to shop online (usually Mighty Ape, Ascent, Amazon), and as such I may have come to expect that this is the accepted standard in the way that companies charge customers.

For example, if I was to place one order for three books on Amazon.com, and one of the three books was out of stock with stock due in 3 days, I would definitely not expect Amazon to charge me for all three books if they decided to only send me the two that were in stock in a first shipment, and then the other when it is back in stock. I would expect to be charged for the order grand total plus freight, minus the cost of the book that is on back-order. And then when the third book comes back into stock, they would charge me for ONLY the subsequent outstanding amount of the order (i.e. just the third book, no extra freight).

Teeps

501 posts

Ultimate Geek

#481121 14-Jun-2011 18:03

richms: IMO a business operating non account sales should not take any action to pack or process an order till it is paid in full.

It would seem that you agree then that the order could have been cancelled (as 2degrees offer in their T&C) as the card had not been charged until after the phone call to cancel the order!

Those that expect companies to not charge a card before it goes out the door are in a fantasy land. That should be the date for any invoice related to warranty matters, but to incurr costs in picking and packing and labeling etc before getting paid is really not on.

It sounds like you're suggesting a brick and mortar store should charge customers to walk through the door as it has cost them to put the items on the shelves, put price stickers by them, have staff there smiling sweetly at you and asking if they can help etc.!? Get real, those are the costs of running a business and thats what profit margins are for! They are not giving items to customers at cost, they make a profit!

I am fully behind 2degrees on this one. The OP seems to have a sense of over entitlement about being able to back out of any deal made just because their situation has changed. Its the same reason that businesses have to have signs up saying they dont have to refund because you changed your mind. And in this case 2degrees do not have to, and are charging an IMO reasonable $20 restock fee.

I don't think the OP has any sense of over entitlement. 2degrees state that you can make changes to your order if it hasn't been processed. As it was the weekend the likelihood is that it has not, evidence to this is his card not being charged until after this time, the invoice date being monday and the item being collected by the courier on monday afternoon. I hardly think a company would waste resources so much to have staff collecting and packing at a weekend when the rest of the process doesn't happen until a normal working day.

You expect them to run around cancelling an order that you agreed to place at zero cost? Fat chance. Probably wasted more than $20 of their time on your indecision already.

I agree, more time has been wasted than the $20 they charge, maybe if they hadn't messed the OP around they wouldn't have incurred these extra expenses!

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dontpanic42

1574 posts

Uber Geek

#481123 14-Jun-2011 18:12

Teeps:
I don't think the OP has any sense of over entitlement. 2degrees state that you can make changes to your order if it hasn't been processed. As it was the weekend the likelihood is that it has not, evidence to this is his card not being charged until after this time, the invoice date being monday and the item being collected by the courier on monday afternoon. I hardly think a company would waste resources so much to have staff collecting and packing at a weekend when the rest of the process doesn't happen until a normal working day.

Another direct quote from 2Degrees' own T&C

We don’t consider any order to be accepted until we’ve processed your payment and sent out the things you bought.

nakedmolerat

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#481125 14-Jun-2011 18:14

computerlounge: but... according to you i should only be charged only when it is dispatched?

fishpond: it was in stock but two days later i was informed that they were out of stock. still the credit card was charged on the day the item was ordered.

elive: it should not matter if it is still in australia, england or russia. that is their responsibility to bring the item into NZ. i think they can always sell it to someone else if i change my mind? (it was not a 'niche' item)

so we have exception(s) to this so called 'common-sense'?

these are not they only items i have ordered online. i am too lazy to go through my emails to see all the other online orders.

on top of that, i am not aware of any laws/rules that states online merchant should only charge you on the day of the item is being dispatched.

kiwipoet22

27 posts

Geek

#481126 14-Jun-2011 18:15

There is a difference between, putting a hold on the card. And charging the card.

I don't trust a online store that takes the money (charging) a full day ahead of sending it.

Mightyape one of the top online stores in NZ,
They don't charge till the day of shipment.

Apple.com
They put a hold on the card, but don't charge the card till it ships

Teeps

501 posts

Ultimate Geek

#481128 14-Jun-2011 18:19

nakedmolerat:
so far, i have not yet come across online shop that charged your credit card only on the day of it being dispatched.

I guess we all do a different amount of online shopping!

I am from the UK and have only lived in NZ since early last year. In the UK I used to do a lot of shopping online and I have to say in general I was only charged when the item was ready to ship (I say in general because it wasn't always, but you remember the ones that do and usually look on them more favourably). If I wanted to cancel or change the order I found most online retailers to be most amenable and more than happy to service their customer, even if it meant cancelling the order. The exception to this was when the item(s) had been shipped. I even had companies pay for collection after it had been shipped, that I consider to be way above expectations and isn't the norm, but they are the retailers you remember for excellent service and the ones you will use again and happily promote to other people (much the same as I have about 2degrees who I think are wonderful, I won't be suggesting anyone uses their online store anymore though).

Don't forget, online retailers are still just that, they are a store, and stores need customers, and a happy customer today is a returning customer tomorrow.

richms

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#481129 14-Jun-2011 18:19

When I last inquired, putting an authorization on a card required a full on merchant account, and was not possible thru a third party gateway. That means the epic task of getting PCI compliant etc.

Richard rich.ms

dontpanic42

1574 posts

Uber Geek

#481135 14-Jun-2011 18:24

nakedmolerat:
on top of that, i am not aware of any laws/rules that states online merchant should only charge you on the day of the item is being dispatched.

Fair enough.
I'm also not aware of any law or regulation that states that companies can only charge a customer upon dispatching an item.

Ultimately I was just basing my assumption (and admittedly, yes, it was an assumption) of charge on dispatch on my past experiences. It seems that I may have been wrong there. I suppose I would feel duped if I experienced anything else in the future.

Teeps

501 posts

Ultimate Geek

#481136 14-Jun-2011 18:28

nakedmolerat: computerlounge: but... according to you i should only be charged only when it is dispatched?

fishpond: it was in stock but two days later i was informed that they were out of stock. still the credit card was charged on the day the item was ordered.

elive: it should not matter if it is still in australia, england or russia. that is their responsibility to bring the item into NZ. i think they can always sell it to someone else if i change my mind? (it was not a 'niche' item)

so we have exception(s) to this so called 'common-sense'?

these are not they only items i have ordered online. i am too lazy to go through my emails to see all the other online orders.

on top of that, i am not aware of any laws/rules that states online merchant should only charge you on the day of the item is being dispatched.

Thanks for a list of companies it looks like it maybe best to avoid.

I don't think anyone suggested an item that has been customised (like a computer, unless its just one off the shelf) should only be charged for when it's dispatched. That would of course been in the agreement when you decided on the spec of the computer, anyone would accept those terms.

Fishpond sound like they're worth avoiding if they claim items to be in stock when they aren't.

Elive: Again, not a good online retailer if they claim items to be available in NZ when they plainly aren't. I think anyone should have issue with that.

I don't think there are any rules about when a store charges, but it would seem that you're more than happy for the stores to take you for a long ride and not think it should change.

Teeps

501 posts

Ultimate Geek

#481137 14-Jun-2011 18:29

richms: When I last inquired, putting an authorization on a card required a full on merchant account, and was not possible thru a third party gateway. That means the epic task of getting PCI compliant etc.

and??

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