2degrees and Orcon Group to merge

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › 2degrees and Orcon Group to merge

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#2843033 4-Jan-2022 12:20

alasta:

Personally I'm a strong believer in on-shored call centres staffed by people with a wide range of backgrounds, even if it adds a bit to my monthly bill.

I think a lot of people would agree with you, or at least to get someone on the phone who knows what they're talking about and trying to fix it for you, as opposed to just trying to be your friend without actually actioning what you're calling for.

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#2843044 4-Jan-2022 12:56

quickymart:

alasta:

Personally I'm a strong believer in on-shored call centres staffed by people with a wide range of backgrounds, even if it adds a bit to my monthly bill.

I think a lot of people would agree with you, or at least to get someone on the phone who knows what they're talking about and trying to fix it for you, as opposed to just trying to be your friend without actually actioning what you're calling for.

i, and a lot of people i know, would disagree. i wouldn't want to 'add a bit to my monthly bill' for something i hardly have a need for. not unlike the wire maintenance fee that got into your bill unless you ask for its termination. i know what it insures you against, but if you live in a fairly new dwelling, let alone a new build it really wasn't necessary.

while i do want to keep the jobs here, it's really all about providing training so the people picking up the other end of the line are actually able to act upon.

BlakJak

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#2843050 4-Jan-2022 13:29

^^ if the service is particularly reliable, that may be true. But we've seen what's happened to the big players when they've offshored their support - in many cases it's been brought back on-shore as it was negatively impacting them in a fairly severe way.

I choose my domain name registrar because they're well regarded, domestically located and have shown they know what they're doing. I pay more per domain than I would at other places, but it's worth doing that for good service (for when I infrequently need it) and for supporting a local business.

In the ISP space i've been a customer of many and worked for a few more. I'd definitely favour one who was reliable (enough) and even though I don't need tech support generally, I do value communicating with someone who understands what's going on when there's an outage.

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insane

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#2843056 4-Jan-2022 13:41

alasta:
insane:

An increasing amount of Vodafone's support is in Christchurch too. The interesting thing about living in NZ is that we're such a multi cultural society that you might be speaking to a citizen, but still get a foreign accent and assume they are overseas.

Not really. When I did my house move with Vodafone my case was handled by a guy who was great to deal with, and who happened to have an Indian accent. It was pretty obvious to me that he was NZ based because he was chatty and relaxed, unlike outsourced call centre staff who sound as if they have an awful working environment.

Personally I'm a strong believer in on-shored call centres staffed by people with a wide range of backgrounds, even if it adds a bit to my monthly bill.

Not really? Think you skimread and didn't see you've actually affirmed what I said.

Unless of course you think that VF is not bringing more support back to NZ, in which case you're incorrect again :)

I don't need support for anything on my end, but am like you also willing to pay a few dollars more to get better support and to support in creating local jobs that hopefully transition to highly skilled work (don't care what race,gender, accent, vax affiliation etc they have) Back in the day, Maxnet sold priority support for $20 a month, and hundreds paid for it to skip the phone queue...that was already answering calls in 27seconds on average.. go figure.

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#2843059 4-Jan-2022 13:48

to blakjak's comment...

one point i was trying to make is that just because the call centre support staff are on-shore/local doesn't guarantee they'd do a good job.

it's about giving them people the requisite training to gain the know-how and also empower them (assuming they have met certain standards and the necessary skills) to actually help troubleshoot - rather than just sticking to a script because they're call support employee level 1.

look at it this way, i have come away unimpressed after talking to local support staff. conversely, apple care in nz field calls for elsewhere on the planet (asia, for instance) and to the customers, it doesn't matter that they're not on the same country.

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#2843082 4-Jan-2022 14:32

I'd agree they don't always do a good job if they're on-shore.

But the hitrate IME strongly favours on-shore.

Ironically using the domain registry service provider example above, it was a domestic support offering that had me actively migrate all my domains against once provider (whose support staff literally didn't understand basic DNS).

Today all I can do is vote with my feet, which I won't hesitate to do.

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#2843153 4-Jan-2022 18:19

nitro:

to blakjak's comment...

one point i was trying to make is that just because the call centre support staff are on-shore/local doesn't guarantee they'd do a good job.

it's about giving them people the requisite training to gain the know-how and also empower them (assuming they have met certain standards and the necessary skills) to actually help troubleshoot - rather than just sticking to a script because they're call support employee level 1.

look at it this way, i have come away unimpressed after talking to local support staff. conversely, apple care in nz field calls for elsewhere on the planet (asia, for instance) and to the customers, it doesn't matter that they're not on the same country.

If the call centre overseas understands you, understands your request, knows what you want and actually actions it, that's great. Sadly too many offshore call centres simply don't care about doing what's requested (I'm directing this comment primarily at Vodafone, who used to have all their call centre functions based here and did quite well at it, before offshoring everything - but it could apply to any provider) and they're more focused on "end that call, get onto the next one" rather than actually taking the time to do what the customer's called about. Case in point, have a look how many threads are on here about someone calling Vodafone, the person at the other end swears black and blue that they'll action the request, only for the customer to find out a month later that exactly 0 has been done, necessitating yet another call, repeating the request, and on and on it goes.

With a Kiwi call centre, that sort of thing happens far less often, as (from my experience) a rep knows if they don't do their job properly, there will be repercussions. A rep in an overseas has much less repercussion to worry about, from some company halfway around the world in a country they're probably never going to visit.

Just my 2c.

nitro

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#2843505 5-Jan-2022 11:23

quickymart:

If the call centre overseas understands you, understands your request, knows what you want and actually actions it, that's great. Sadly too many offshore call centres simply don't care about doing what's requested (I'm directing this comment primarily at Vodafone, who used to have all their call centre functions based here and did quite well at it, before offshoring everything - but it could apply to any provider) and they're more focused on "end that call, get onto the next one" rather than actually taking the time to do what the customer's called about. Case in point, have a look how many threads are on here about someone calling Vodafone, the person at the other end swears black and blue that they'll action the request, only for the customer to find out a month later that exactly 0 has been done, necessitating yet another call, repeating the request, and on and on it goes.

With a Kiwi call centre, that sort of thing happens far less often, as (from my experience) a rep knows if they don't do their job properly, there will be repercussions. A rep in an overseas has much less repercussion to worry about, from some company halfway around the world in a country they're probably never going to visit.

Just my 2c.

i do get what you're saying. nevertheless, that's a harsh, and quite unfair, generalisation.

first, because it's really not just vodafone (though that may be your specific experience)... a quick lookie here and you'll see people seeking help because they haven't been actioned upon by other entities... sure, they may all have overseas call centres, which proves your point...

BUT, secondly, NZ call support is a tiny, tiny drop in the big bucket of call support centres all over the world (sure mainly cheap labour countries)... they really can't be the only ones who are good at it.

anyway, as for the original topic... i'm quite keen on this merger. this does make them a more serious contender, and in theory would be good for the consumer. also, would we now see 2D-Orcon offering hyperfibre? not that anyone really needs it at home, other than to show off to our ozzie mates.

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#2843514 5-Jan-2022 11:40

Another perspective:

As a Deaf person who relies on the NZ Relay service to phone people I find offshore agents to be pretty difficult. For those who are not aware, the relay service essentially has me typing to a Relay Assistant (RA) who speaks on my behalf, and in reverse other end speaks and the RA types their response etc back to me.

When communicating via a RA the difference between a NZ-based agent and a foreign agent is like night and day. The NZ-based agent typically a clear accent which makes it so much easier for the RA to type what they are saying -- and for them to understand what the RA is saying on my behalf. Foreign agents tend to have accents which makes it difficult for the RA to clearly type what they are saying. Foreign agents also tend to lack local knowledge needing the RA to frequently clarify spelling and whatnot (e.g. addresses, names, and so on) which is rare for NZ-based agents as they will already know the relevant NZ vocabulary.

It's so bad that whenever I get a foreign agent many RAs will side-channel a message at the beginning of the call e.g. they will type "(STRONG ACCENT, VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND)" to give me a heads up that the call will be a difficult one. 90% of the time much of the call is wasted on clarifying minute details and sometimes even after a extended length of time on the call has to end even though I had not get what I needed done. Yet when I get a local agent i can usually breeze through the call quickly (no time wasted fussing over the spelling for common NZ place names etc) and it's almost always has my issue sorted.

I don't joke when I say the difference is Night and Day.... Give me a NZ agent please to guarantee a quick call that actually resolves my issue. It's painful enough having to converse via an intermediary, adding a foreign agent to the mix makes it even worse.

quickymart

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#2843540 5-Jan-2022 12:12

nitro:

quickymart:

If the call centre overseas understands you, understands your request, knows what you want and actually actions it, that's great. Sadly too many offshore call centres simply don't care about doing what's requested (I'm directing this comment primarily at Vodafone, who used to have all their call centre functions based here and did quite well at it, before offshoring everything - but it could apply to any provider) and they're more focused on "end that call, get onto the next one" rather than actually taking the time to do what the customer's called about. Case in point, have a look how many threads are on here about someone calling Vodafone, the person at the other end swears black and blue that they'll action the request, only for the customer to find out a month later that exactly 0 has been done, necessitating yet another call, repeating the request, and on and on it goes.

With a Kiwi call centre, that sort of thing happens far less often, as (from my experience) a rep knows if they don't do their job properly, there will be repercussions. A rep in an overseas has much less repercussion to worry about, from some company halfway around the world in a country they're probably never going to visit.

Just my 2c.

i do get what you're saying. nevertheless, that's a harsh, and quite unfair, generalisation.

first, because it's really not just vodafone (though that may be your specific experience)... a quick lookie here and you'll see people seeking help because they haven't been actioned upon by other entities... sure, they may all have overseas call centres, which proves your point...

BUT, secondly, NZ call support is a tiny, tiny drop in the big bucket of call support centres all over the world (sure mainly cheap labour countries)... they really can't be the only ones who are good at it.

anyway, as for the original topic... i'm quite keen on this merger. this does make them a more serious contender, and in theory would be good for the consumer. also, would we now see 2D-Orcon offering hyperfibre? not that anyone really needs it at home, other than to show off to our ozzie mates.

It is harsh, for sure. But I worked at Paradise, then Telstra Saturn, then Telstra Clear. I left years before they merged with Vodafone, so I've got firsthand experience of seeing this happen throughout the industry.

When the call centre was here (for both Vodafone and TCL), things got actioned on the first call. The person knew exactly what you were talking about, and it was all taken care of.

The minute it got offshored, service levels went downhill - a lot of local product knowledge simply disappeared. You only have to look on here for what happened when Vodafone decided to outsource their centre to Egypt. I had that experience myself.

Calling Telecom for a while was a similar situation. When I worked there, I had a customer call in who had been transferred around the traps in Manila; first thing they said when I answered the phone was "thank God I've got a Kiwi!" Speaks volumes, really.

With the 2degrees merger, I hope they retain all their call centre staff in Christchurch (ex-Snap) and expand them, as well as keeping any existing Orcon staff - if this all gets approved, they're going to grow a lot.

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#2843916 5-Jan-2022 19:48

quickymart: ... With the 2degrees merger, I hope they retain all their call centre staff in Christchurch (ex-Snap) and expand them, as well as keeping any existing Orcon staff - if this all gets approved, they're going to grow a lot.

As I recall, 2D shipped PC's & desks to call centre staff working from home during the lockdowns. Feels like a serious waste if they offshore the call centre now.

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#2843980 5-Jan-2022 21:00

ANglEAUT:
quickymart: ... With the 2degrees merger, I hope they retain all their call centre staff in Christchurch (ex-Snap) and expand them, as well as keeping any existing Orcon staff - if this all gets approved, they're going to grow a lot.

As I recall, 2D shipped PC's & desks to call centre staff working from home during the lockdowns. Feels like a serious waste if they offshore the call centre now.

If they weren't from the office then they would surely have been leased. As an employer they need to provide staff with a safe working environment, and fir someone potentially stuck on calls for a long period of time, they probability didn't have much choice.

I bought a standing desk and new chair this last lockdown to help my back that kept getting injured from sitting on a poor desk/chair combination.

Good on them for not just leaving their frontline staff to fend for themselves unassisted.

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#2843997 5-Jan-2022 22:06

ANglEAUT:

quickymart: ... With the 2degrees merger, I hope they retain all their call centre staff in Christchurch (ex-Snap) and expand them, as well as keeping any existing Orcon staff - if this all gets approved, they're going to grow a lot.

As I recall, 2D shipped PC's & desks to call centre staff working from home during the lockdowns. Feels like a serious waste if they offshore the call centre now.

I hope you're right, and my cynicism is proven wrong or misplaced.

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#2844128 6-Jan-2022 10:30

I worked for a while in a call center for AT&T when I was still in Manila. Most of the clients in the BPO outsourcing there and even now is for US or Canada so hearing UK & AU is hard enough.

The NZ accent is also completely different then throw-in the Kiwi slang it will also be a Night and Day to a typical Filipino, Indians and even to US and Canada english native users. So that is just on the language barrier side.

A voice call center support person is only as good as how a company trains them and provide resources for them.

In a typical work station in Manila one would be working their ass off every second of their shift with endless wave of calls is this the same in a NZ based call centre?

quickymart

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#2844155 6-Jan-2022 11:15

I know when Vodafone's one was here they were quite busy. Dunno what it's like now though.

TCL = faults would occasionally have really busy patches, but Customer Services was always busy - almost impossible to get through to them. They could never hire enough people for their Chch call centre.

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