2degrees: Changes to IP Addresses (CGNAT)

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#2306303 26-Aug-2019 17:14

Hi All,

Sorry for the delay in getting back.

The shortage of IPv4 addresses is a problem shared worldwide which has been anticipated since the late 1980s, because of this we have been an earlier adopter of IPv6 for over 10 years for our residential subscribers. Due to the low adoption rate of IPv6 by providers, this has not solved the problem of IPv4 address exhaustion. To enable us to keep offering broadband services to more Kiwis at a competitive cost, we need to move to CGNAT.

So far, we’ve moved around a thousand customers who have been working with us, testing and providing feedback, this has gone very well with the vast majority of customers noticing no impact to their broadband service. We’ll move on with a phased approach for our remaining customers, with a few thousand moving across before the Rugby World Cup, then the remaining customers moving over to CGNAT by end of the year.

Whilst we’ve been really chuffed so far, we understand there might be some instances where customers may notice the change. If you have any concerns with your broadband service, get in touch via PM and we’ll talk you through the options we have. ^SW

nzkc

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#2306343 26-Aug-2019 17:24

Are you advising those customers before you move them? E.g: via an email?

MichaelNZ

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#2306345 26-Aug-2019 17:28

nzkc: Are you advising those customers before you move them? E.g: via an email?

I do local IT services.

When asked - 80%+ of clients inform me their internet is "wifi". The average user really doesn't have a clue what an IP address is.

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rugrat

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#2306351 26-Aug-2019 17:35

I don't like it how they're keeping the options under their hats.

Will be in contact with Spark within the week, cannot be bothered with this any more.

Edit: I tried online chat, and didn't like options given there. $10 Static IP a month, crazy.

michaelmurfy

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#2306358 26-Aug-2019 17:43

rugrat:

I don't like it how they're keeping the options under their hats.

Will be in contact with Spark within the week, cannot be bothered with this any more.

You do know that even if you went with a static IP from 2degrees it is only $10/mo more? As in, depending on your plan and especially dependent if you've got mobile with them is still cheaper than moving to Spark? This includes a static IPv6 prefix also.

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toejam316

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#2306363 26-Aug-2019 17:52

michaelmurfy:

rugrat:

I don't like it how they're keeping the options under their hats.

Will be in contact with Spark within the week, cannot be bothered with this any more.

You do know that even if you went with a static IP from 2degrees it is only $10/mo more? As in, depending on your plan and especially dependent if you've got mobile with them is still cheaper than moving to Spark? This includes a static IPv6 prefix also.

It seems a lot like the people in this thread aren't upset at the idea of spending more willingly, but that businesses can't freeze and hold the same pricing and options forever.

Reminds me of the occasional "What do you mean I've happily paid the same rate for 8 years and no one explicitly sought me out to tell me there's a better deal I could ask for?!" threads that pop up occasionally.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

nzkc

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#2306366 26-Aug-2019 17:56

MichaelNZ:
nzkc: Are you advising those customers before you move them? E.g: via an email?

I do local IT services.

When asked - 80%+ of clients inform me their internet is "wifi". The average user really doesn't have a clue what an IP address is.

This is an utterly useless reply and doesn't help the situation or answer my question. But I'll bite...

How about the fact that I do know what the change entails and the impact it has on my internet. How about that 2degrees are changing my service without notifying me. If I wasn't a geekzone member or constantly monitoring their website (FAQ) for changes I would be none the wiser. I chose (technically: have remained a customer of) 2d because they didn't use cgnat. And the "but you can pay $10 more for a static IP" isn't a good response either. 2d will be charging me quite a bit more for the same service I used to receive.

I don't buy my internet on what is the cheapest. This move might be enough for 2d to lose my custom in internet and 3 mobiles. Not just this but also because there's an area of the country we visit frequently that has poor 2d cell coverage (where Spark is good).

So depending on how they handle this might sway my decision one way or the other. That sounds like I want special treatment which isn't the case. I was asking for some clarification so I might know when I might be hit by this change.

Edit: typos from my phone!

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skewt

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#2306368 26-Aug-2019 18:03

toejam316:

It seems a lot like the people in this thread aren't upset at the idea of spending more willingly, but that businesses can't freeze and hold the same pricing and options forever.

Reminds me of the occasional "What do you mean I've happily paid the same rate for 8 years and no one explicitly sought me out to tell me there's a better deal I could ask for?!" threads that pop up occasionally.

A price increase to a plan is different to taking a feature away and then charging the user for it to work again

michaelmurfy

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#2306369 26-Aug-2019 18:03

nzkc:

How about the fact that I do know what the change entails and the impact it has on my internet. How about that 2degrees are changing my service without notifying me. If I wasn't a geekzone member or constantly monitoring their website (FAQ) for changes I would be none the wiser. I chose (technically: have remained a customer of) 2d because they didn't use cgnat. And the "but you can pay $10 more for a static IP" isn't a good response either. 2d will be charging me quite a bit more for the same service I used to receive.

I don't buy my internet on what is the cheapest. This move might be enough for 2d to lose my custom in internet and 3 mobiles. Not just this but also because there's an area of the country we visit frequently that has poor 2d cell coverage (where Spark is good).

So depending on how they handle this might sway my decision one way or the other. That sounds like I want special treatment which isn't the case. I was asking for some clarification so I might know when I might be hot by this change.

Edit: typos from my phone!

I'm still going to say this is still early days and I will bet they'll communicate this to customers properly (via email, more than likely) before actually switching them over. This is likely why they don't currently have any other options but a static IP currently. I bet the CSR's are like "um, what?" when people from this thread contact them as it isn't even really live yet. Again, refer to this post about people overreacting.

The official word from 2degrees above was "at the end of the year" which is still a while away.

rugrat

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#2306371 26-Aug-2019 18:06

michaelmurfy:

rugrat:

I don't like it how they're keeping the options under their hats.

Will be in contact with Spark within the week, cannot be bothered with this any more.

You do know that even if you went with a static IP from 2degrees it is only $10/mo more? As in, depending on your plan and especially dependent if you've got mobile with them is still cheaper than moving to Spark? This includes a static IPv6 prefix also.

I have no interest in Post Paid mobile, going from memory 2Degrees post paid started at $29, where as prepay was $19, for about same amount of data, so the mobile discount is just an illusion. I do know they're doing a $20 temporary at present but I prefer prepay, and except for the lack of 1 hour free data a day I'm happy on Skinny at moment. Have about a spare 8 gigs on Skinny so seems I gain data faster then using anyway.

I'm not sure how IPv6 makes things work better when it's not wide spread available at both ends, having a public IPv4 seems more important then IPv6 at present, hopefully one day most places support IPv6 so IPv4 not so important, but feel not there yet.

I'm a Netflix watcher, so that works for me, and Spark has improved their offers since left (Netflix 1 year instead of 6 months and the 100/20 price has come down)

The $10 static is a price increase as it's a service that is only needed because of changes 2degrees are doing, not changes I'm doing, I rather put the $10 to use on the Entertainment Pack with Spark. So is a deal breaker. Maybe Spark will go CGNAT one day, I'll cross that bridge when it happens.

For people that it doesn't impact 2degrees is a good competitive provider.

My 2 and a bit cents Cheers.

nzkc

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#2306373 26-Aug-2019 18:12

michaelmurfy:
The official word from 2degrees above was "at the end of the year" which is still a while away.

Not quite: they actually said some before the world cup and the rest by the end of the year (not at). So I could be changed tomorrow based on that.

2degreescare:
We’ll move on with a phased approach for our remaining customers, with a few thousand moving across before the Rugby World Cup, then the remaining customers moving over to CGNAT by end of the year.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2306379 26-Aug-2019 18:31

As an impartial observer, I agree this matter has not been adequately handled. The statement from 2degrees this evening reads like a marketing document, downplaying the significance of the pending change and addressing none of the concerns raised in this discussion.

This discussion has came about because of something 2degrees has published on their public Website (or was it a Treasury Budget type of mistake?). They should have been ready to answer questions when it was made public. I don't think it would have been unreasonable to wait until Monday for clarification on how this process would be handled, but that clearly hasn't come.

Oblivian

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#2306428 26-Aug-2019 20:15

nzkc:

How about that 2degrees are changing my service without notifying me.

Unfortunately one of those buried away things we all agree to. That T&Cs can be adjusted

15. Changing the terms and conditions

We may change this Agreement and/or vary any Service at any time in accordance with this clause 15.
If we reasonably believe that a change is likely to benefit you or have no or a neutral impact on you, we may make that change without giving you prior notice.
If we intend to:

increase our Charges for any of the Service(s); and/or
reduce the elements of a Service you are using; and/or
change the terms of this Agreement,

and we reasonably believe that change will have only a minor detrimental impact on you, we will give you at least 10 working days’ prior notice, and where possible we will try to give you 30 days’ prior notice before making that change.

For the majority, I suspect they consider this 'neutral impact'.

And as it hasn't happened yet. If it is of the latter, notifications won't be going out just yet to know if considered minor detrimental.

freitasm

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#2306459 26-Aug-2019 20:42

rugrat:

I have a Dyson heater that can access by remote access and a wifi light bulb, can't remember brand but use Kasa to access it. Doesn't use a hub everything built into bulb. I can see what devices doing when away from home using mobile network.

If it effects heat pumps wifi and those sort of things then going to effect more then just a small percentage.

Had to create an account in cloud, so don't know how it works to find device at home, maybe they're be alright?

If anyone needs to port forward to a light bulb, camera or heatpump... Then I'd just put the devices in the rubish bin and burn them.

Repeated many times here: port forwarding to these kind of devices is asking for trouble.

NickMack

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#2306461 26-Aug-2019 20:46

freitasm:
rugrat:

I have a Dyson heater that can access by remote access and a wifi light bulb, can't remember brand but use Kasa to access it. Doesn't use a hub everything built into bulb. I can see what devices doing when away from home using mobile network.

If it effects heat pumps wifi and those sort of things then going to effect more then just a small percentage.

Had to create an account in cloud, so don't know how it works to find device at home, maybe they're be alright?

If anyone needs to port forward to a light bulb, camera or heatpump... Then I'd just put the devices in the rubish bin and burn them.

Repeated many times here: port forwarding to these kind of devices is asking for trouble.

Agree.. IOT stuff typically isnt designed with security in mind and therefore making it directly available on the net is a mindfield searching for disaster ;-)

Nick

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