Samsung TV recording: Allowing for EPG inaccuracy

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graemeh

2078 posts

Uber Geek

#1344697 15-Jul-2015 14:08

B1GGLZ:
graemeh:

The TV is designed to also record TV transmissions using the EPG info. This feature does not work because the program does not record correctly. It doesn't really matter who is at fault it just doesn't work. Yes you can argue the fault is minor and has been a problem with VCRs and other technology but ultimately that does not matter, the TV is not capable of performing as advertised so it fails to be of acceptable quality.

The manufacturer promotes that you can record TV but the reality is you can't so the TV is not of "acceptable quality". End of story.

I'm sorry but I disagree. The TV does record using the EPG as advertised. Samsung doesn't specify the recording has to stick to the EPG times. The manufacturer can't be held responsible for inaccuracies in the EPG and broadcasters overruning their timeslots as it's beyond their control. The EPG is ONLY a Guide and not to be relied upon. If the EPG fails and/or goes off air for any reason for any length of time are you going to blame Samsung? I've tried recording to an SD card on a TV and as others have said, the picture quality is rubbish.

I'd completely missed the comment about the picture quality being rubbish, that alone is a reason you can return the TV and obtain a refund under the CGA. Consumers are entitled to rely on the big bold statements made by retailers and manufacturers, if a manufacturer advertises that you can record TV programs using the guide then you must be able to do that. Sure, if there is a glitch with the broadcaster and the program guide is wrong or blank for a period then that is not an issue but if the feature just plain doesn't work in the NZ environment because TV broadcasters often run late then the manufacturer and retailer are breaking the law by saying "recording via EPG" is a feature of their TV.

graemeh

2078 posts

Uber Geek

#1344699 15-Jul-2015 14:11

Dunnersfella: It's not replacing it with a Freeview box - it would be offering a solution, the adjudicator at the CGA would see that a remedy has been offered and may very well side with the retailer.

The problem here is that the consumer guarantees act is quite explicit in the solutions available to a retailer, they are "the retailer can choose between repairing it, replacing it, or giving you a refund" (see http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/law/consumer-guarantees-act/got-a-problem-with-goods#retailer)

The solution you describe is not one of the legally prescribed solutions so the consumer does not have to accept it.

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#1344999 15-Jul-2015 20:41

graemeh:
Dunnersfella: It's not replacing it with a Freeview box - it would be offering a solution, the adjudicator at the CGA would see that a remedy has been offered and may very well side with the retailer.

The problem here is that the consumer guarantees act is quite explicit in the solutions available to a retailer, they are "the retailer can choose between repairing it, replacing it, or giving you a refund" (see http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/law/consumer-guarantees-act/got-a-problem-with-goods#retailer)

The solution you describe is not one of the legally prescribed solutions so the consumer does not have to accept it.

Semantics - if the consumer is happy with the end result, then it's happy days all around.
If they're not, they argue for something new.
How a retailer decides to follow up is their decision - but rolling over for a secondary function issue like this is... well, I wouldn't like the chances of getting a brand new TV. I also don't like the chances of TVNZ / Kordia or MWorks fixing things from their end.
Stick to the Magic TV and put it down to 'it is what it is'.

k1w1k1d

1519 posts

Uber Geek

#1345013 15-Jul-2015 21:09

Our Samsung 2014 UA55H6400 works well with a 2.5" HDD. Haven't had any issues with EPG time errors. Picture quality is good.
Recorded shows are listed by date, not name. Can take a while to find the show you want.
Logitech K400 keyboard works quite well with the TV.

graemeh

2078 posts

Uber Geek

#1345158 16-Jul-2015 09:08

Dunnersfella:
graemeh:
Dunnersfella: It's not replacing it with a Freeview box - it would be offering a solution, the adjudicator at the CGA would see that a remedy has been offered and may very well side with the retailer.

The problem here is that the consumer guarantees act is quite explicit in the solutions available to a retailer, they are "the retailer can choose between repairing it, replacing it, or giving you a refund" (see http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/law/consumer-guarantees-act/got-a-problem-with-goods#retailer)

The solution you describe is not one of the legally prescribed solutions so the consumer does not have to accept it.

Semantics - if the consumer is happy with the end result, then it's happy days all around.
If they're not, they argue for something new.
How a retailer decides to follow up is their decision - but rolling over for a secondary function issue like this is... well, I wouldn't like the chances of getting a brand new TV. I also don't like the chances of TVNZ / Kordia or MWorks fixing things from their end.
Stick to the Magic TV and put it down to 'it is what it is'.

You are right if the consumer is happy with the end result then there is no issue.

Any smart retailer should be showing the customer how poor the built in recording is and up-sell to include a Magic TV box.

mdooher

Hmm, what to write...
1424 posts

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#1345166 16-Jul-2015 09:21

graemeh:
Dunnersfella:
graemeh:
Dunnersfella: It's not replacing it with a Freeview box - it would be offering a solution, the adjudicator at the CGA would see that a remedy has been offered and may very well side with the retailer.

The problem here is that the consumer guarantees act is quite explicit in the solutions available to a retailer, they are "the retailer can choose between repairing it, replacing it, or giving you a refund" (see http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/law/consumer-guarantees-act/got-a-problem-with-goods#retailer)

The solution you describe is not one of the legally prescribed solutions so the consumer does not have to accept it.

Semantics - if the consumer is happy with the end result, then it's happy days all around.
If they're not, they argue for something new.
How a retailer decides to follow up is their decision - but rolling over for a secondary function issue like this is... well, I wouldn't like the chances of getting a brand new TV. I also don't like the chances of TVNZ / Kordia or MWorks fixing things from their end.
Stick to the Magic TV and put it down to 'it is what it is'.

You are right if the consumer is happy with the end result then there is no issue.

Any smart retailer should be showing the customer how poor the built in recording is and up-sell to include a Magic TV box.

Actually this is a second TV, the magic TV is attached to the primary TV. The whole point was to buy a TV with everything built in so that those more technologically challenged could use it. I have no intention of buying another magic TV just so my wife can record "the chase".

Another interesting matter. When starting the Skype app I was told I needed to by a 5000 series camera (as expected)... unfortunately these are not available from Samsung New Zealand. I ended up getting a mate in Aus to send me one.

And I'm still peeved that Freeview is advertising this TV as having Freeview plus when it doesn't

Matthew

graemeh

2078 posts

Uber Geek

#1345172 16-Jul-2015 09:34

mdooher: Actually this is a second TV, the magic TV is attached to the primary TV. The whole point was to buy a TV with everything built in so that those more technologically challenged could use it. I have no intention of buying another magic TV just so my wife can record "the chase".

Another interesting matter. When starting the Skype app I was told I needed to by a 5000 series camera (as expected)... unfortunately these are not available from Samsung New Zealand. I ended up getting a mate in Aus to send me one.

And I'm still peeved that Freeview is advertising this TV as having Freeview plus when it doesn't

So am I correct in saying one of the features that lead you to buying this TV was the recording from the EPG and it doesn't work.

You definitely can go back to the retailer and ask them to sort it as they are required to do so under the CGA. Possibly also the free trading act as they are making misleading representations about what the TV can do.

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B1GGLZ

1961 posts

Uber Geek

#1345325 16-Jul-2015 12:03

mdooher:

And I'm still peeved that Freeview is advertising this TV as having Freeview plus when it doesn't

Look at their website. Yes it does but not yet approved for use. They are quite specific -

The following 2015 models are PENDING APPROVAL. Users will have access to FreeviewPlus once they are fully approved.

http://www.freeviewnz.tv/freeview/2015-approved-freeviewplus-models/samsung-models/

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

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#1345354 16-Jul-2015 12:21

graemeh:
mdooher: Actually this is a second TV, the magic TV is attached to the primary TV. The whole point was to buy a TV with everything built in so that those more technologically challenged could use it. I have no intention of buying another magic TV just so my wife can record "the chase".

Another interesting matter. When starting the Skype app I was told I needed to by a 5000 series camera (as expected)... unfortunately these are not available from Samsung New Zealand. I ended up getting a mate in Aus to send me one.

And I'm still peeved that Freeview is advertising this TV as having Freeview plus when it doesn't

So am I correct in saying one of the features that lead you to buying this TV was the recording from the EPG and it doesn't work.

You definitely can go back to the retailer and ask them to sort it as they are required to do so under the CGA. Possibly also the free trading act as they are making misleading representations about what the TV can do.

From reading the OP's post, it appears that Freeview are saying it is Freeview Plus ready... not Samsung or the retailer.
The TV wasn't purchased from Freeview as they don't sell TV's, they just have a pretty useless web presence in my experience (hey Freeview, how about 'These areas are having transmission issues currently' maps?).

The recording of Freeview shows DOES work, however it cannot be altered to record for 5 mins extra / start 3 mins earlier - as per the OP's Magic TV PVR.
So the OP isn't 100% happy with its performance.

There's a chance that Freeview Plus would be certified for the TV... but until then, it's a waiting game. A little like me having to wait for my older Panasonic VT60 plasma TV to get Netflix.

I guess it's the little things that annoy people... they can just add up. The Skype camera is typical of many importers though, they bring in the main unit, but none of the accessories.
Of course, the cameras are often found in smaller retailers who struggle to sell through the 'odds and ends'. However, as the OP found a work around by purchasing from overseas, it's under control.

Basically, all TV / PVR manufacturers seem to be treating end users as BETA testers - fun huh :-)

PimpMyMagic

267 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1345370 16-Jul-2015 12:31

I had the misfortune to buy a BD-D8500A, Samsung BlueRay player/HDD recorder a few years ago. It was a hasty choice because it was on sale in a location I don't normally visit. After a cursory look over the manual and the product I purchased it.
It turned out the devil was in the detail. While it had twin tuners, it turned out that only one was available for recording from, while the second could then be used for viewing another channel. Stupid. I bought it as a PVR, not a set top box for my TV. Most PVRs have twin tuners to enable recording of two programmes at the same time.
I couldn't find any ref in the manual to deleting recordings and it took a long stumbling through the convoluted menus to be able to achieve this basic function.
Recordings could only be enabled via the EPG, and like the Topic Starter's TV, there was no way to modify start and end times of recordings.
Every Samsung product I have since seen has in my opinion, illogical layouts of its menus. I'm not sure if Korean minds work with different thinking patterns from me or if their software engineers are just so immersed in coding techniques that they fail to put themselves in the end users' headspace to cover important operating features.
I eventually wrote off my purchase decision as a really poor one, and determined that I would never buy another Samsung electronic device again.

mdooher

Hmm, what to write...
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#1345402 16-Jul-2015 12:55

B1GGLZ:
mdooher:

And I'm still peeved that Freeview is advertising this TV as having Freeview plus when it doesn't

Look at their website. Yes it does but not yet approved for use. They are quite specific - The following 2015 models are PENDING APPROVAL. Users will have access to FreeviewPlus once they are fully approved.
http://www.freeviewnz.tv/freeview/2015-approved-freeviewplus-models/samsung-models/

Yes, funny how they didn't have that rider on last week, Until I gave them a serve...

Matthew

wklie

191 posts

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#1345571 16-Jul-2015 16:00

Dunnersfella: The recording of Freeview shows DOES work, however it cannot be altered to record for 5 mins extra / start 3 mins earlier - as per the OP's Magic TV PVR.

mdooher: I wonder how Samsung managed to get their TV "freeview approved" with such a glaring issue.

My PERSONAL understanding is that a TV only needs to pass the certification of Freeview TV requirements profile, and last time I checked the 2011 document does not encompass recording function. So my PERSONAL understanding is that even if a TV does not record satisfactorily it can still be a Freeview certified TV.

User-adjustable padding (e.g as offered by Magic TV) is a mandatory requirement in the Freeview PVR requirements profile.

LUMIN Network Music Player, Magic TV New Zealand and Australia firmware lead